Angry

[EMS49393]

I work for a for a public utility model and as such, we are separate from the fire department. I ran a call the other day that angered me so much I was ready to walk off my job, so here is what happened.

I was dispatched to a medical alarm for an 85 year old lady that had fallen. It was out of my district, so we had a longer response time by about 4-5 minutes. When we were approaching the corner of the street I saw the engine company sitting there, waiting for us. When they saw us, they started their truck up and went down the street ahead of us, arriving at the same time we did.

On arrival we see this elderly lady standing at the door. She states she was moving and fell and that she is fine now. The fire department enters the home with me (I have no idea why) and start to interview the lady without giving me a chance to even talk to her. Clearly they were not needed and since they projected no interest in running the call by delaying their response for us, they should have left. I looked at them and told them that they could go. The one guy says they would leave but they had to get the patients name first. They have to justify their value by getting some patient information, even though they didn't want to be there and did NOTHING for the patient. By the way, she was fine.

Here's what pisses me off. There is no one I can complain to within my company. They have suspended medics over issues they've had with the fire department when clearly the fire department was wrong. And, yes, I was a victim of a suspension because I tore into in with a fire captain when he refused to relinquish medical command to me on a call. I was told that in theory medical calls are my responsibility however the fire department has ultimate command of any calls.

Here is the second part that pisses me off. They are funded by tax-payer money, yet they pull this crap. That woman pays their salary and she could have been seriously injured, bleeding, or dying. There are many more of them then there are of us, but if they're not first responding, what purpose do they serve? We are not funded by tax-payers in that area, yet we are held to response times, and would never dream of pulling a stunt like that.

I realize this fire department thing is a racket. There are too many fire stations and fire fighters and not nearly enough ambulances and medics. They are just not needed as much as they were 25 or 50 years ago before improved building codes, sprinkler systems, etc. I understand they don't want to lose their jobs and will try to do what little they can to prove they are still needed in great numbers within the community.

Bottom line, there wasn't anyone I could turn to. Over the past year I've come to realize that I don't hate being a paramedic, as I once thought I did. I hate being a paramedic where I work. I hope that I love this job like I used to once I move next month. I don't know if I ever will. EMS seems like such a loss cause to me anymore. Thanks for reading my rant.

[HERBIE1]

Tough situation. If you do not receive support from your superiors when something like this happens, it's a big problem. Because clearly the fire department has the upper hand here, it doesn't look like you will ever get satisfaction or a fair shake. It seems you are changing positions and/or places, which may be the best solution for you.

As for changing the status quo- good luck. The only way something like this gets exposed and potentially changed is if something(like a delayed response) bad happens to someone with clout or money. They raise hell and somebody's head will roll. There will always be animosity between fire and EMS- even when they are located within the same department that has single role providers. The old school mentality that a firefighter wasn't "trained to be no doctor" is still prevalent in many areas.

Honestly, I think the only thing that will help is time. After a generation or 2 of firefighters are trained as prehospital providers and deal with the reality that the majorioty of their job is NOT fighting fires, the tensions will start to ease. Now, with this economy, even the sacred cow of public safety is seeing cuts. Layoffs, fire companies going out of service, manning cuts all mean that either the business adapts or will be in real trouble. Will this mean fire attempts to exert even more control and/or influence over EMS to save their skins- quite likely. How will EMS respond to these challenges- that remains to be seen.

[crotchitymedic1986]

Complain annonymously to the fire department chief. Tell him that you live on that street and wondered why the fire truck waited -- tell him you took videos of it, and will turn it over to the news. I imagine those employees will be fired. Anyone that with-holds care to a patient in need should have their license taken and should be criminally persectuted. Notify your State EMS Office as well, even though these guys are fire department property, they are EMTs and Medics, and fall under the States jurisdiction. The response time records should prove that they did wait, since they arrived at the same time you did, and you had an extended eta

[Kiwiology]

Dude WTF .... how can the fire department be in command of all medical calls if you work for a public utility service model (third service)?

I'd complain annonymously to the fire department medical director or county/state EMS officials

Edited July 19, 2009 by kiwimedic

[Arctickat]

Anonymous complaints are worthless. As a high level manager I see them often, and I will not give them credence. If the complainant is too much of a coward to take responsibility for his accusations then I will not do anything to followup on the incident. I've even told this to people who have phoned me up to complain. The very first question I ask is their name. If they do not provide it I tell them that they are unlikely to see any satisfaction from their complaint because anyone can make false anonymous accusations without fear of repercussion. If they are willing to give their name so I am able to follow up with them, it's a different story and I take it very seriously.

Either way, I do follow up on all complaints. If anonymous I tell the target of the complaint about it and ask if there is anything to it. Sometimes they admit that something may have happened, other times they deny it. I do not put anonymous complaints on the record. The only time I might ever consider an anonymous complaint to be valid is when I get inundated with them regarding the same incident.

So, in your case, if you're going to make an anonymous complaint, make several. Make them via different media as well, phone call, letters, etc. That might get some attention.

[tniuqs]

When they saw us, they started their truck up and went down the street ahead of us, arriving at the same time we did.

Umm WHY would they delay a response ?

If the patient was fine when why get your knickers in a knot ?

Just is not worth the effort of putting your BP into the roof, yea go ahead and rant ... heck we do understand the frustration ... and rant on .... if that helps.

But pick your battles wisely.

Agreed with Artickat: anonymity is worthless and unless your willing to attach your name kinda gutless too.

cheers

[VentMedic]

So, in your case, if you're going to make an anonymous complaint, make several. Make them via different media as well, phone call, letters, etc. That might get some attention.

EMS49393

This may only get one ignored more and written off as a disgruntled employee who is holding a grudge for getting suspended once your identity becomes known. Also, when it is anonymous, the media may just toss it as being unsubstantiated and may not publish a bash and trash letter.

When you were suspended did you pursue all avenues to make your side known? What other situation(s) was also occurring when you wanted medical command that also brought a FD Captain to the scene?

Leave a paper trail through your own chain of command first or ask for a sit down meeting with your superiors. Are there any others who also have similar complaints and are willing to join you?

What is your policy for canceling the FD? Often if the FD has already anounced they are on scene the Paramedics may have to do their own report whereas if they are canceled in route they may not.

A lot of people hate where they work and that is one thing someone can change even if you have to relocate. Even those that work for a hospital in a town with only one hospital realize a change in location might be necessary to get the specialty or job situation desired. Good luck with your next job and maybe it will turn into a career position.

Edited July 19, 2009 by VentMedic

[EMS49393]

The captain was a part of the engine crew that was in the regular response.

I do not plan on making any reports or complaints, as it is worthless to do so in this area.

Even with my company, the employees are wrong and the fire department is correct. It's just the way it is. They have a relationship to continue with the fire department, and if that means losing a paramedic or two to maintain that relationship, it is worth the sacrifice.

This was just a rant, nothing more. I didn't get my BP in a huff. I know there is nothing I can do to change it. It's the south, it's a backwards good old boy system, and I understand that.

This job for me is the equivalent to a kid working at McDonald's to pay for college. I'm only doing it to pay for another degree. I don't really like it, and I'm just biding my time. Every once in a while I get super pissed off, and just want to blow off some steam.

[HERBIE1]

Anonymous complaints are worthless. As a high level manager I see them often, and I will not give them credence. If the complainant is too much of a coward to take responsibility for his accusations then I will not do anything to followup on the incident. I've even told this to people who have phoned me up to complain. The very first question I ask is their name. If they do not provide it I tell them that they are unlikely to see any satisfaction from their complaint because anyone can make false anonymous accusations without fear of repercussion. If they are willing to give their name so I am able to follow up with them, it's a different story and I take it very seriously.

When the problem is because of an entrenched, good old boys network, an anonymous complaint might be the only way something is changed. Whistelblower tip lines have became common in many places for this very reason. If the complaint has no merit, then after an investigation, it is ignored, but dismissing it out of hand is not a good idea. Yes, in a perfect world, it would be nice for everyone to "man up" and sign their name to a complaint, but that's not the way it always works. People fear reprisals, especially when they are in a subordinate position or one that is not part of the majority.

Either way, I do follow up on all complaints. If anonymous I tell the target of the complaint about it and ask if there is anything to it. Sometimes they admit that something may have happened, other times they deny it. I do not put anonymous complaints on the record. The only time I might ever consider an anonymous complaint to be valid is when I get inundated with them regarding the same incident.

I thought you said that you don't give anonymous complaints any credence? Anyway, I think a simple check is worthwhile to see if the complaint has any validity. Consider the source- is the employee reliable? Do you value their opinion? What is their work and/or disciplinary history? What is the employee's relationship to the complainant(peer, subordinate, potential competition for a promotion, etc? For the benefit of your organization, I think if you can keep a little problem from escalating, it's worth the extra effort.

So, in your case, if you're going to make an anonymous complaint, make several. Make them via different media as well, phone call, letters, etc. That might get some attention.

[Arctickat]

I thought you said that you don't give anonymous complaints any credence?

I'm sorry that you are unable to understand a post which includes a qualifier. I will try to dumb it down for you in the future.