Input please on outsiders helping on scene

[letmesleep]

nope, we changed to yard darts....you didn't get the memo?

[DirtJerZ]

I agree that the person trying to help might be a "whacker" but may prove to be of assistance to you, but like stated earlier the patron trying to help may be drunk. Id be suspicious of the training of the person who might want to help on the sprained ankle, bloody nose calls. I wouldnt offer my help if security/police or fire is on scene and they dont ask. So i guess just use your best judgement.

[TJZ]

If this is a frequent problem I may have a potential solution.

The service that I now work for has a bright red form that we can give to any medical staff that thinks they should be in charge of a patients care. We are primarily a transport service so it does come up quite a bit. The form asks for credentials and they must sign to legally accept responsibility then they ride in the back and care for their patient with us for backup. Maybe you need a form Something formal that they can not duck out of as it suits them. Once signed it is THEIR patient.

[zippyRN]

Use them as trained bystanders. They will not be able to perform any treatments beyond what you have available anyway. If they take too much control of things, wait for the transporting agency to arrive, and watch the fireworks.

sounds pretty much a fair assesment ...

i've stayed onscene and on one notable occasion had an offer to help at a (just )established scene accepted , of course ID and approrpaite PPE helps ...

[Christopher.Collins]

This is what I do...

I play the abandonment card. If the person is higher certified... or claims to be, you explain to them (and ask if they understand) that if they want to assume care they are legally obligated to remain with the patient untill they can hand off to an equal or greater level care provider. I.E if its a nurse... they will likley have to go to the hospital with the patient, if its a medic they will have to wait untill an ALS unit arrives, if its a BLS unit then they must go to the hospital (like the nurse). Know what I mean?

The same applies to doctors too of course. But Id make sure you ask them if they are an M.D or a P.H.D and specifically what kind of doctor... dont be handing care over to a pediotrist.

If all else fails and they dont have any kind of PPE (especially if its one of thoes that run into a wrecked car types) then you just kick them out. Where I come from FD has command of emergency scenes and we are sticklers over PPE.

Of course, I do appreciate help but if a bystander is ganna help they are moving stuff out of my way or something non-direct patient care oriented.

On second thought, asking all that does waste time... but the all of two times Ive done it, it got nagging "higher ups" off my back.

[katbemeEMT-B]

We have utilized bystanders many times. It makes them feel like they are doing something to help the victim. More often than not it's something as simple as asking others what they saw and reporting back to us, finding something that may have fallen off the patient, or grab something from our truck. They don't seem to mind how little the task may be, as long as they can help. I have been on-scene when a medical professional showed up and demanded that I give him a patient report and he would let me know what I should do next. I immediately asked him if he is assuming responsibility for the patient, and if so, "please sign here"! He backed away pretty quick.

[fireflymedic]

My thoughts on bystanders is they can be useful in certain situations, however most of the time they are simply a hinderance to our normal functioning process. Now, that being said, if I'm at walmart and see something happen I'll offer to help, but by no means am offended if they tell me go away. It just depends on the situation, and if there is anything I really can do to benefit someone or just stand there in the way. However, once EMS shows up, I tell 'em what I know and get outta the way. It's their show then. If help is needed and I can do something, by all means I'll offer, if I'll just be in the way, or they have it under control, I'm not going to impose. My thought is it's kinda like this for all the fire people in here - if you were driving by and saw a house on fire, and saw nobody around, you'd have enough sense to call and say hey there's a house on fire. You wouldn't however, try to grab the local FD's pack and your turnout gear and try to go running in with them. They've got their own system and what works for them and they don't need your intervention - you're a liability and just in the way. I have enough to do when I'm on duty that I don't need to go looking for it off duty, but I would never walk away from someone who truly needed help and there was no one around to help. Just my humble two cents.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Ruff, both of those stories suck. Good for you for sticking up for yourself and not letting inept providers get away with it. Those FFs obviously missed the class on sizing up a scene. Are you changing the stories though? Is it any cooincidence that you, "roll up" on these things? I'm betting you are a whacker with a scanner in your car and run to them when you hear them dispatched.

Yes embellished to protect the inept providers

And yes I have a scanner in my car that is programmed to every fire and ems channel in every state. I run to them every chance I hear them. Even if it's 5 states over. I have tremendous reception.

[Eydawn]

I'm a fan of the insta-Kerlex barricade...

"Hey you! Yes you... here, take this! Hold on to the end of it. You over there! C'mere... you hold that about 3 feet down from the first guy. Pass it down the line, and everyone hold onto it and DO NOT LET GO, ok?"

Works like a charm... especially with Boy Scouts who all rush over "I have my first aid merit badge! I know! I have first aid!"

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[Lone Star]

When I got into an accident that was caused by a drunk driver, and I totalled my '84 Suburban (Look Here), I ended up shattering my nose and breaking 5 ribs. The first bystander that ran up to the vehicle (was the scene even safe at that time?), was hollering, "I know CPR! I know CPR!" It was all I could do to explain to her (kind of difficult with a shattered nose), that I was a licensed EMT, and I could GUARANTEE that I definately DIDN'T need CPR....

While I appreciate the the fact that someone acutally stopped, I'm thinking that this was one that definately needed to be told what to do!