Fight over ambulance leads to fight in Atlantic City....

[Upton4785]

I want to say that the ped vs car needed the ambulance more than the kid with the head wound, but saying that as bluntly as that would imply that I know all the facts about the call, which I don't. What I have is a relatively good idea of what may or may not have happened, and I can make a somewhat intelligent "guesstimation". Yeah, I may only be a basic, but I did learn about triage.

The only way I see the kid getting the ambulance over the ped vs. car is if by "badly bleeding", they mean pouring blood like cherry Kool-Aid out of a pitcher, or if the kid's eye is still attatched to the fence down the street, or if the kid still has a large section of the fence still embedded in his face. Working at an amusement park certainly gave me an insight on working with children, but more importantly, working with the kid's screaming, freaked out parents. While the parents may have seen a life threatening injury, the medics on scene may have seen just a scratch. Sure, I'd have helped them out and given them some gauze or something, but if an ambulance was called everytime some dumb kid cut their face, that's all we'd be doing all day. I have a scar on my face from a pretty serious fall onto concrete when I was a toddler, but my parents did the right thing and patched me up themselves, then took me to the ER, where I think they waited the better part of a week for a doctor.

As far as the ped vs. car, yeah, he may be faking it. Unfortunately, we don't have Superman's X-ray vision and can't see if he's faking it. We have to play along and assume he's not. If he was and it's found out later, we don't look like fools for saying "F- you" to a potential serious spinal trauma. We did our jobs to the best of our ability, but it's not our jobs to determine whether a guy is just a hoax, right?

[rogue medic]

We can't take unrelated patients because of HIPAA?

Patients who may be separated by only a curtain in the ED. That is assuming that they are not in hallway beds with no curtains available.

You have two patients. Which one you have been dispatched for is unimportant. You are the person representing yourself as the trained care provider. Why do you now panic and claim to be incapable of handling 2 patients?

We don't know how serious the pediatric patient, with hemorrhaging from a head injury, really is until we assess the patient. At the hospital they determined the kid only needed stitches.

We don't know how bad the auto/pedestrian patient lying in the road was. No mention is made of the patient arguing or yelling in pain or having any pain. We don't know. Y'all just made that stuff up.

What good reason is there to not transport both patients?

What if the next due ambulance is half an hour away?

Do you wait with both of your patients on scene?

Do you not assess both of your patients in the mean time, because of misunderstanding of HIPAA?

Do you leave one of your patients on scene and tell them wait there for another ambulance. What if they don't wait?

What if there actually is something that you missed in your assessment, because of all of the bystanders fighting and the patient does not go to the hospital - after all the trained professionals refused to take the patient, how bad could it be?

Maybe, the auto/ped has a fracture that sets wrong. No liability, there?

Maybe, the kid develops an infection from the fence that he ran into. No liability, there?

Or Dr. Brabson receives a call about the EMTs refusing to transport a patient. Is he going to be unhappy with patients for confusing his EMTs?

Is NJ so backward that you are not allowed to be a patient, unless you call 911, first?

Is any other state?

You have 2 patients and you can't figure out how to transport both?

As long as they are not interfering with the care of the other patient, put them in the truck, take your thumbs out of your orifices, and stop wasting everyones time.

Aren't people from The Swamp State always complaining about people causing ambulances to be unavailable because of minor injuries. Here you have the EMTs causing 2 ambulances to be tied up, instead of just one.

You guys are probably whining more than both of the patients did.

If you can't deal with this there are exciting jobs in the fast food industry.

[DwayneEMTP]

We can't take unrelated patients because of HIPAA?...

I'm guessing you're referring to me. I didn't mean to imply that we couldn't transport because of HIPAA, only that I hadn't, and still haven't I guess, thought of it from that direction.

It wasn't my intention to suggest to those more or less educated than myself that I was stating a fact, only a "Hmmmmmm?" about the question. See what I mean?

Dwayne

[DwayneEMTP]

Rogue medic, I've liked your posts so far, but you're looking for trouble when you suggest that it makes no difference who called the ambulance originally, or when.

This topic has been thoroughly discussed here, and I think you'll find that in most places, picking and choosing your patients after you've been dispatched to a call can be catastrophic for your career.

Plus, when saying something like, "...You guys are probably whining more than both of the patients did. If you can't deal with this there are exciting jobs in the fast food industry."

It's a good idea to define "You guys." Do you mean those of us here at the City? Those in the article? Health care providers from Florida?

There are some terribly smart and confident people here, and some of the smartest of that group are from Florida. I'm just trying to be neighborly and help you avoid misunderstandings in the future.

You're posts so far have been very good for someone new to the community, so I hope you take this in the spirit of, even if rather clumbsy, an attempt to be helpful and not an attempt to snipe at you.

Great to have you here!

Dwayne

[rogue medic]

The you here is a generic you - any EMS provider presented with this situation.

I am not recommending choosing patients.

You have 2 patients.

I am making the point that choosing is wrong.

You have 2 patients.

You may have a boss tell you that you only have a responsibility to the patient you were called for. Is it written somewhere on the side of the ambulance that the 911 writing is not just for information, but that you must call 911 to be transported? You may not flag down an ambulance?

I was under the impression that this took place in Atlantic City, which is still in New Jersey, at least it was the last time I was there.

You guys = anyone trying to come up with an idea why you can pretend that you do not have 2 patients. Acting as if you are Solomon and will split the baby to determine who the mother is. These are just distractions from the reality of - you have 2 patients.

Nothing personally directed at anyone. Just a "what are you thinking?" kind of comment.

You cannot choose unless you have some other provider to transfer care to, or you end up with a refusal. EMS initiated refusals do happen in NJ, but NJ OEMS will pull your card if they find out.

Dwayne, you complimented me twice. Boy are you going to lose credibility with everyone else.

You just like me, because of my picture. Well, I am not that pretty in person. :oops:

I appreciate the kind comments. I was not even noticing a Florida connection to the forum. My bad.

[DwayneEMTP]

I certainly see your point here. I don't see why taking two patients was an issue either, though I don't have the experience to know that it is in fact NOT and issue in other places.

And I haven't seen your picture to tell the truth. I assume that most new folks posting without revealing their sex is a male, though I never really look at the pics of anyone until I get to know them a bit anyway.

Thanks for the clarifications, I look forward to your future posts.

Dwayne

[Dustdevil]

You just like me, because of my picture.

Well, I am not that pretty in person. :oops:

[Richard B the EMT]

This is not the Atlantic City call, but draw your own parallels, if you feel they are there.

In Brooklyn, NY, there was a 5 year old black male, who got hit by a car knocked out of control, from a collision, onto the sidewalk. The car was a part of a convoy. The boy had been riding his tricycle on the sidewalk.

The driver, a Jewish male, was, understandably in shock, as he had hit a child.

The ambulance that was summoned, from the Hatzoloh Shevra service, which was not a local 9-1-1 system unit, transported...THE DRIVER.

Allegations abound, for over fifteen years from the incident, as to if the ambulance crew checked the child or not, or were told by the LEOs NOT to take the child.

The child died before the municipal ambulance arrived.

A large group of black local residents, understandably upset, with a somewhat long history of neighborhood problems between the 2 groups, follows one loudmouth's incitement to riot, subsequently attacked an Australian rabbinical student. The Aussie student was stabbed, with possible mistakes made on the part of the hospital's own triage, resulting in him dying from bleeding out.

This mess resulted in the "Crown Heights Riots", that lasted for a week before hostilities stopped.

I was not there. I can only report on what was mentioned in the newspapers at the time.

Could the ambulance, in this accident, have transported both patients? All these years later, I can but guess that they probably could have. Should they have transported both? Again, in retrospect, yes, they should have, even with the common practice of not transporting patients from opposite sides (for lack of a better terminology) of an accident.

But, again, that is just my humble opinion, and, as I already stated, I was not there at that time.

[rogue medic]

I think that DustDevil got the sarcasm that I am not as pretty as my life-like "photo not available" picture.

[DwayneEMTP]

:oops: Well, hell, I've never claimed to be the brightest bulb on the tree... :wink: