lowest common denominator

[Just Plain Ruff]

Why is our field the only field that I know of that caters to the lowest common denominator.

The most glaring example of this dumbing down is the thread that was posted regarding the curriculum.

ACLS has been dumbed down

PALS has been dumbed down

PHTLS has been dumbed down

EMT school has been dumbed down

And a number of other things have been dumbed down.

Why do we tolerate this in our field?

Do we just have more stupid people in our field that we need to dumb it down?

I also remember something on these forums about somwhere in Chicago they dumbed down another course.

Why do we tolerate this, PHysicians and RN's do not tolerate their curriculum being dumbed down?

Is there a difference between the medics and emt's of 10 - 15 years ago versus the medics and emt's of today?

[spenac]

It is dumbed down to get people to take these low paying jobs. Why increase pay when we can just run a cheap quick class and hire these new people cheaper?

The few good quality schools have to work hard to get students because most just want the answers to the test so they can go to work. I am having to work to pass my classes. I ask paramedic students from other schools questions and they have never heard of it most of the time. Do I need this info to pass the NR test ? No, but I need it to be a good healthcare professional.

[AZCEP]

It is dumbed down to get people to take these low paying jobs. Why increase pay when we can just run a cheap quick class and hire these new people cheaper?

This is an extremely insightful statement spenac. Thank you for that.

Does the phrase "No student left behind" ring a bell for anyone? Students don't have to work to achieve anything all through their elementary/secondary education then enter the professional world only to find that they won't be "given" the same breaks.

This leads rapidly to students complaining to administrators, which in turn leads to problems for the instructors that expect more from their students. It is pandemic in the entire educational system.

[DwayneEMTP]

This is an extremely insightful statement spenac. Thank you for that.

Does the phrase "No student left behind" ring a bell for anyone? Students don't have to work to achieve anything all through their elementary/secondary education then enter the professional world only to find that they won't be "given" the same breaks.

This leads rapidly to students complaining to administrators, which in turn leads to problems for the instructors that expect more from their students. It is pandemic in the entire educational system.

So is it then also your contention that Dr.s and nurses are also much dumber than they used to be? I haven't seen that trend, though I don't really live much in that world to have been able to see it.

The educational system certainly has many flaws, but the attempt to stop failing the majority of kids in it probably isn't one of them.

I was talking to my preceptor about this on my LAST...(Did I mention it was my LAST clinical?) a couple of weeks ago as well as the Medical Director for one of the local systems the other night. It seems obvious to me that pay and hiring practices are the reason for this trend.

When I decided to go to medic school here I called AMR while trying to choose between three schools and asked them which they thought was best, which they would be most likely to hire from. I was told, "I doesn't really matter. Just bring me a med cert and we can put you to work." When I told them I'd chosen to get an AAS instead of simply a cert, and wondered if that would be a benefit when attempting to get hired, I was told, "Not really, you only really need a cert. It's all the same." So I chose the school with the easiest drive as well as the EMS chair that spent the most time talking to me about their program.

When "meat in the seats" is the goal of management, the the cheapest, easiest, dumbest school becomes the brass ring for those wanting to buy some lights and sirens.

Also, I think the fire union's constant onslaught to reduce educational standards because of "hiring difficulties" certainly doesn't help things change.

When you're on the outside of "No Child Left Behind" and believe what you hear in the media, it seems like a bad idea. When you're involved in children's education, as I am with my son, you see that the kids are becoming more personally, emotionally, and intelectually stable than has been the case in the past. This isn't a child problem, it's an industry problem. The vast majority of companies with higher intellectual standards are not complaining of issues attempting to fill their seats, right?

We need to keep this problem focused "in house" where it can be addressed and resolved instead of tossing out into the abstract ozone where it remains, "not my fault."

Dwayne

[emsmedic39]

You are right it's the Pay. EMT unite! WE NEED UNIONS!!!!! NOW.

[firedoc5]

I have noticed since '84 that things have became more lax. I've interviewed a few EMT's and Medics and they seem like the more basic things are being over looked. I'm sorry, but I'm a big "you must first learn the basics". I actually had a few tell me they rarely even opened their first EMS books, like they were bragging about it, like, "I'm so smart I didn't need to learn that". I didn't know to laugh or cry about it. Rarely did I pass on their application on to the office. I haven't fallowed the curriculum in about ten years, but even when talking to the newer Medics, you can tell they didn't get near as much instruction as we did, at all levels.

[Dustdevil]

So is it then also your contention that Dr.s and nurses are also much dumber than they used to be? I haven't seen that trend, though I don't really live much in that world to have been able to see it.

The educational system certainly has many flaws, but the attempt to stop failing the majority of kids in it probably isn't one of them.

I'm not sure if I can agree with that, at least in the context of this analogy. Medical school has a four-year weeding out process that does not involve the medical school. Pre-meds have four years to grasp the reality that they are no longer being given points for just showing up. Those who can, do. Those who cannot, fail. Consequently, no matter the results of NCLB, they are mediated by the time they get to medical school.

In EMS, we have no such remediation or buffer zone between us and the public schools. In fact, that is exactly why a great many people choose EMS in the first place. Even at it's hardest, it's still fast and easy compared to any real profession.

You are right it's the Pay. EMT unite! WE NEED UNIONS!!!!! NOW.

There have been unions in EMS for thirty years or more, and so far they FAIL to improve the profession. In fact, they are one of the factors in holding educational standards down. What makes you think they are going to suddenly change all that?

[DwayneEMTP]

I'm not sure if I can agree with that, at least in the context of this analogy. Medical school has a four-year weeding out process that does not involve the medical school. Pre-meds have four years to grasp the reality that they are no longer being given points for just showing up. Those who can, do. Those who cannot, fail. Consequently, no matter the results of NCLB, they are mediated by the time they get to medical school.

In EMS, we have no such remediation or buffer zone between us and the public schools. In fact, that is exactly why a great many people choose EMS in the first place. Even at it's hardest, it's still fast and easy compared to any real profession.

Ah. I see your point. I wasn't really thinking of it from that point of view.

[firedoc5]

Back when it was only EMT-A, EMT-I, and EMT-P, Those whose main goal was to become and Paramedic from the time they finished EMT-A, at least in our little system we used the EMT-I program to weed out the one's you knew wouldn't make it, or should I say shouldn't make it. That's why some said that their "I" class was harder than the "P" class. And we had a great instructor. He was a licesened physician's assistant (this was pre nursing practitioners) and he was the Medical Services director at a large coal mine, so you know he knew his stuff. And he was very hands on. I think we started with about 18-20 students. Only 11 passed the class. They either flunked out or quit. And working with coal minors he knew how to be aggressive.

[mshow00]

Then you also have to consider the "needs" of your area. My company is split by a river that also is a state border. Our sister company (the other side) has had 15 medic and 20 to 25 basic slots open. We hire anybody with a pulse, regardless of their skills or knowledge (down side to working private)