Why are we worth less than CNA's?

[vs-eh?]

A couple of points...

1) It might just be me but the educational requirements to function in patient care in an ED seem quite low in the US. A 120 hour course or 4 month'ish program doesn't qualify you in ANY capacity to be involved in patient care (especially in an emergent setting). As akroeze said PSW is 1 year fulltime, RPN is 2 years, and RN is 4 years. As far as I know, only RN's participate in patient care in the ED. Floors are different, but not the ED.

2) I won't expect any equivalency for a profession just because it is in the same blanket field. I don't expect primary care paramedic's (2 year college) to be able to write an exam or something and BOOM are now an RPN, and certainly not vice versa. I even have some issue that they allow RN's to challenge the PCP process, but I can potentially see (at least from an educational standpoint) why it can happen. I also don't expect me as an ACP to be able to take say a 1 year bridge and become an RN....But I digress...

Wendy, if a 4 month course will get you a job that you want, why not do it? I dunno that's just me...

For reference -

http://postsecondary.humber.ca/07041.htm

http://postsecondary.humber.ca/07741.htm

http://postsecondary.humber.ca/07061.htm

http://postsecondary.humber.ca/07651.htm (PCP or BLS)

[JPINFV]

1) It might just be me but the educational requirements to function in patient care in an ED seem quite low in the US. A 120 hour course or 4 month'ish program doesn't qualify you in ANY capacity to be involved in patient care (especially in an emergent setting). As akroeze said PSW is 1 year fulltime, RPN is 2 years, and RN is 4 years. As far as I know, only RN's participate in patient care in the ED. Floors are different, but not the ED.

At least for the hospitals I've seen, the emergency department techs aren't really responsible for patient care persay. In most cases they're there to assist the licensed patient care team (physician, nurse, RT, etc) by providing an extra hand, house keeping (restocking, turning over beds, etc), simple jobs (running 12 leads that the doctor will read, hooking patients up to monitors, CPR, etc), and patient transport (with licensed staff (RN, RT, etc as needed to monitor the patient).

In general, they aren't treating the patient based off of their own assessments akin to basics working in the field and are not a replacement for nurses.

[DirtyBlackSocks]

Last I checked EMT's scope is a pre-hospital setting. In fact, I thought they made that very clear in almost every training course you go to.

If you wanted to work in a hospital, why would you get certified for a profession that is by nature pre-hospital?

I don't have any experience with it, but I'm sure there are a lot of protocols one has to learn to be allowed to work with patients in a hospital care setting, vs. O2 and transport.

[Eydawn]

Here's where I'm coming from.

I am currently taking 16 credit hours, trying to finish out my Bachelor's in Science in Bio by December so I can go through the nursing program (BSN) I want starting next year.

I'm working between 20-30 hours a week in a job that is really a CNA position... only thing is, they're so desperate for people in the Developmental Disabilities world that they hire anyone with a clean driving record and background check.

I've had nigh on 80 hours of training from this... (not too far off from the 91 hours that the local CNA class is... where are y'all getting that CNA has MORE hours?), and the work is basically CNA work.

Yes, to infection control, communication with the nurse (who's never physically in any of the homes), long term patient care, client rights (and rights suspensions), ambulation techniques (hell, some of our people can barely stand upright unassisted), fall prevention, behavior redirection and intervention (we can restrain- but only in the standing upright position with NO physical restraints other than my 2 pretty little hands...), suicide watch, meal prep, feeding, communicating with and attending to adults with both dementia, alzheimer's AND developmental disabilities, CPR, medication administration... most of this is done EVERY shift depending at which facility you're at.

Now, at my workplace, it would be nice if they just sent us through a CNA class. But they can't invest in that because the average employee turnover is 5 months. So we get a hodgepodge of training to complete within 90 days of hire. I've got an edge in recognizing the medical stuff, because all they give these folks is a red cross 1st aid class and a bit of advice from our nurse.

Now, I'm tired of the scheduling fubar that attacks me every single week (multiple times... I can't remember when I had a shift scheduled that stayed exactly the same as when I was assigned it...) and the fact that it's like pissing in the ocean... no matter how many times *I* call in a shift report and document that this client's infection STILL hasn't been treated and clean the house and do my job well, there's 6 others who come after me and do the minimum to get by. So what do I do?

I apply for jobs that require a current EMT-B certification.

Lo and behold, most of the available ones right now are in the hospital setting and prefer a CNA license along with it. The only problem is, I have the majority of the training necessary... I just don't have the god damn piece of paper that goes with it. And I don't have the finances, or the time, to add on 5 more credits at a community college. I'm barely making it as it is right now.

And the field jobs... well, let's just say they're sparse, not really available in my area right now, and I'm trying to get my paperwork in order so I can volunteer (as a 3rd rider in a specific company's program) so I get that "6 months magical field experience" that I need to get hired as a full time field EMT because somehow, 5 years of prehospital medical experience in the Boy Scouts of America, 3 as an EMT, just doesn't translate. Yes, it's real medical care, yes, I worked with prehospital providers, yes, sometimes I helped transport... but it means nothing!

You see where I am? I have a decent amount of experience in acute and ongoing care in a few different populations... and you know what? It means absolutely nothing.

I feel absolutely worthless. I feel like I've pursued the educational opportunities that have become available to me... and I'm stuck in limbo in a job that I'm really beginning to have issues with. I have a certification that really means nothing, because at the time I pursued it, I was unaware of the drawbacks of being a BLS provider. I have experience that doesn't count for anything. I'm trying my damndest to get that undergraduate education that's so important, so I can go through the accelerated BSN and be a well rounded medical provider.

But right now, I'm trying not to drown. And I'm trying to reconcile the fact that I've met many more bad CNA medical providers than I have EMT-B medical providers, yet somehow the CNA cert is the key to the doors that are locking me up right now.

Does this make more sense as to what I was pondering? I understand they're different specialties. I just wish there were an experience based qualification for challenging the exam and getting the piece of paper. And there isn't.

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[JPINFV]

Last I checked EMT's scope is a pre-hospital setting. In fact, I thought they made that very clear in almost every training course you go to.

If you wanted to work in a hospital, why would you get certified for a profession that is by nature pre-hospital?

I don't have any experience with it, but I'm sure there are a lot of protocols one has to learn to be allowed to work with patients in a hospital care setting, vs. O2 and transport.

A lot of hospitals hire EMT-Bs as a "trauma tech" or "ER tech."

Examples

University of California, Irvine Trauma Tech

Memorial Care System, ~5 openings between different hospitals. Search in the Professional/Technical/Certificate section

The thing also to remember is that these spots normally pay about $5 more an hour than ambulance jobs.

[DirtyBlackSocks]

Wendy,

That's a lot of text, I didn't read through all of it.

If you're going for a BSN, though. Then it makes sense that you want to work in a hospital setting.

My Aunt actually had her entire BSN paid for and was working as a Nursing Assistant because she wrote letters to every single Medical Director in her county pleading her case and offering 2 years of service after receiving her license in exchange for employment and helping her through college.

You may want to try and go that route, it's at least worth a shot.

If not just do your best to keep on track, things will get better once you get your BSN. Don't comprimise your goals because you get frustrated.

[akroeze]

A couple of points...

1) It might just be me but the educational requirements to function in patient care in an ED seem quite low in the US. A 120 hour course or 4 month'ish program doesn't qualify you in ANY capacity to be involved in patient care (especially in an emergent setting). As akroeze said PSW is 1 year fulltime, RPN is 2 years, and RN is 4 years. As far as I know, only RN's participate in patient care in the ED. Floors are different, but not the ED.

2) I won't expect any equivalency for a profession just because it is in the same blanket field. I don't expect primary care paramedic's (2 year college) to be able to write an exam or something and BOOM are now an RPN, and certainly not vice versa. I even have some issue that they allow RN's to challenge the PCP process, but I can potentially see (at least from an educational standpoint) why it can happen. I also don't expect me as an ACP to be able to take say a 1 year bridge and become an RN....But I digress...

Wendy, if a 4 month course will get you a job that you want, why not do it? I dunno that's just me...

For reference -

http://postsecondary.humber.ca/07041.htm

http://postsecondary.humber.ca/07741.htm

http://postsecondary.humber.ca/07061.htm

http://postsecondary.humber.ca/07651.htm (PCP or BLS)

Point of clarification, there are hospitals in Ontario that have RPNs working in the ER. Many of the patients an average ER sees are appropriate for an RPN assuming they are stable with a well defined, predictable outcome.

[Eydawn]

JPINFV, those jobs are EXACTLY what I have been applying for. Guess what? CNA preferred...

Thanks for the responses, folks. I appreciate it!

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[itku2er]

.Here where I am at there you cant work in the hospital at all unless you are a CNA LPN RN they have no EMS working unless they have one of the other certifications. But CNA are trained in other aspects of nursing where EMT's are not specifically trained in these area.

[captainstandup]

I've always asked that myself. Also, taking RN's out to become MICN's, sort of like you having to train them so they can give orders to you. :roll:

What are orders? I thought this concept died with the dinosaurs 20 million years ago, or was it 1992? No more mother may I for us. Medical control is available if we need to chat about an unusual situation, but our medical director expects us to conduct an educated assessment and apply the appropriate treatment.

I cringe at the thought of returning to the dark ages. We had an MICN that was so worthless, we would call in with a report of a patient with 10 / 10 chest pain and every conceivable symptom of an MI and she would being the "silly dance." The dance began by her asking if we had the patient on oxygen, then she wanted the vitals again, then she wanted the patients color and skin condition AGAIN then she would give us "permission" to administer 1 mg of MS "slow IVP" and included "recheck patient's BP immediately after MS admin" Thankfully this insulting idiot retired and the OEMS vastly altered the rules to allow an immense degree of autonomy among EMS providers.

I wonder if we overdosed anyone with such a high dose of MS back then?