PD Full Arrests

[Echoburger]

Here in our city of about 360,000 people we have around 80 ( I think ) Police Units that are staffed to take 911 calls. Out of these 80 police units...exactly 13 of them are "PD AED units". They carry Philip HeartStart AEDs. When a Full Arrest call comes in...Fire/EMS are dispatched when 25 seconds. However...any time there is a Full Arrest, PD will do a broadcast over the radio and ask if there are any units with an AED that are able to respond

Example : "Attention all units...we have a full arrest...123 Fake street in the 450's...map page 90Adam...Dispatch to any unit with an AED that can respond?"

And...if there is a unit that has an AED...they will respond and get onscene as a first responder and attempt to defibrillate the patient.

However...I have just found out that when PD units with AED's go on Full Arrest calls...they do not run code?! They will do a "Priority 1" Response...which is an immediate response without Lights and Sirens.

My question is:

1. Whats the point of even giving PD units AED's if they dont run code 3 to full arrest calls? (besides the obvious :roll: a witnessed arrest)

2. Why do they respond non-emergency? To me...if someone is in cardiac arrest and a PD unit is 3 minutes away...it doesnt make sense to me for the PD unit to be sitting at the red light waiting when the poor guy is dying?

Just wanted yalls opinions

[Scaramedic]

Short answer.

Texas.

Nuff said.

[AnthonyM83]

Do they officially respond without lights and sirens? Or are they doing without them because they don't like medical stuff and don't want to be first on-scene?

[spenac]

Short answer.

Texas.

Nuff said.

Wrong, Safety. In all honesty why put the public and the officer at risk to go to a dead person call. Very few are brought back to actually return to life as normal later. And that crap nobody dies in my ambulance is also crap, 99.9 % of the time if your pumping chest in the ambulance, they are already dead but uneducated idiots refuse to call it and quit putting everybody else at risk of injury or death. Out of hospital "saves" ( save is returns home basically same as prior to event ) are very almost non-existent. Honestly far more people are probably harmed and killed by idiots responding and transporting L&S codes than have those that have been "saved". Do whats right for the majority, Quit risking everyones life for one dead person.

[Scaramedic]

Umm every study has shown that the earlier electricity is applied the higher the odds you won't be "pumping" the patients chest in the back.

[align=center:09547cffaa]From the AHA...

Early Defibrillation

Early defibrillation means having immediate access to a properly working automated external defibrillator (AED). This allows trained lay rescuers to give a potentially lifesaving electrical shock to the victim's heart during a cardiac arrest.

Early defibrillation is often called the critical link in the chain of survival, because it's the only way to successfully treat most sudden cardiac arrests. When cardiac arrest occurs, the heart starts to beat chaotically (fibrillation) and can't pump blood efficiently. Time is critical. If a normal heart rhythm isn't restored in minutes, the person will die. In fact, for every minute without defibrillation, the odds of survival drop 7-10 percent. A sudden cardiac arrest victim who isn't defibrillated within 8-10 minutes has virtually no chance of survival.

Emergency Medical Services providers have traditionally performed defibrillation, but quick EMS response isn't always available. Even the best EMS systems are delayed by heavy traffic, secured buildings and gated communities. Large building complexes and high-rises also pose problems. In some communities and facilities, EMS personnel or traditional first responders with AEDs can't reach sudden cardiac arrest victims within the necessary four minutes after a collapse. For these situations, the American Heart Association advocates establishing public access defibrillation (PAD) programs. This helps ensure that the people most likely to arrive first at a medical emergency are equipped to help. These people include firefighters, law enforcement and security officers, industrial facility personnel and retirement community workers, among others.

The American Heart Association recommends that PAD programs do the following:

* Train designated rescuers in Heartsaver AED (a CPR and AED training program).

* Have physician oversight to help ensure quality control.

* Work together with the local EMS system on equipment interface and protocols.

* Use and maintain AEDs according to the manufacturer's specifications

[/align:09547cffaa]

It sounds like they have a good idea they are just not following through with it. Cops run lights and sirens to lesser calls where a patients life is not on the line. To have AED equipped vehicles run code 1 is stupidity.

[spenac]

I disagree. The drop off is still very minor to additional risk to the public. Slow down. Save more lives.

[Echoburger]

Do they officially respond without lights and sirens? Or are they doing without them because they don't like medical stuff and don't want to be first on-scene?

I have doubled checked and this is what they told me:

"Officers can run code at theri discretion"

[brentoli]

All of our SD units have them. They are dispatched and run emergent to all unconscious calls. If they ambulance beats them, then unless they are DRT the officer disregards. I don't believe the city cops have any AED's. if we see a call pop up on the citys screen and we have an officer we know might be close, we will tell them about it and then they can use their own discretion if they want to get involved or not.

[captainstandup]

Cardiac arrests should be run in the field, and stopped in the field. Through properly applied therapeutic electrocution, first and, if we must, second line resuscitation medications and end tidal Co2 (attached to an endotracheal tube) we will have virtually 100% predictability of whether to transport to ER or morgue.

Cops running emergency to these calls is questionable, EMS transporting a cardiac arrest to the hospital emergency traffic is foolish. Consider the risk to unrestrained providers attending to the patient, and for what?

Exceptions to this, in my opinion, would include pediatric arrests (in interest of family and crew mental health) and cases of penetrating trauma where surgical intervention may change the outcome.

[AnthonyM83]

Wrong, Safety. In all honesty why put the public and the officer at risk to go to a dead person call. Very few are brought back to actually return to life as normal later.

That doesn't quite make sense. Why spend all that money on AED's then? For the one time once a decade that someone's going to go down in front of an officer with the AED? I've never heard of police departments being that worried about public safety from going code 3 that they won't even light up for a legit medical, especially if they're carrying an AED.

This is a case where you can actually save a life, unlike most of the things PD goes code 3 to. Not all cardiac arrests are a lost hope if you get there early, do good CPR, and early defib....