Referring to standing orders/protocols on a call?

[akroeze]

Never hurts to look. I mean, you see docs looking stuff up all the time.

[mobey]

I have a palm pilot with our protocols downloaded I used to use when I just started. It was faster than flipping through a book, and looked cooler. Plus old ladies had no idea I was second guessing myself!!

[akroeze]

To me it's no different than pulling out a calculator to do a drug dosing for something like dopamine.

[Dustdevil]

I don't do it. I never have done it. Ever. Not even as a student. In fact, I don't even recall ever seeing anybody else do it. The whole concept is just bizarre. If you don't know your protocols, do yourself, your patients, your partner, and the world of favour and quit today. Come back when you have that minimum level of knowledge.

Drug dosages and calculators? Sure. But looking up protocols...? No way.

[spenac]

I don't do it. I never have done it. Ever. Not even as a student. In fact, I don't even recall ever seeing anybody else do it. The whole concept is just bizarre. If you don't know your protocols, do yourself, your patients, your partner, and the world of favour and quit today. Come back when you have that minimum level of knowledge.

Drug dosages and calculators? Sure. But looking up protocols...? No way.

I strongly disagree with you Dust. There is no reason not to verify protocols, especially of the things that you do not use often. How often have I done it besides verifying dosages? Very seldom but there have been times when patient did not respond to treatment on the long transports I used to have, so I would look back and see if patient might fit in a different protocol so I could do more for them. For initial treatment other than dosages actually never referred to protocols, but I would not hesitate if I was not sure. I do strongly agree you should know your protocols, but when a question creeps up refer back.

[Dustdevil]

Can you give me a few examples of scenarios where you might need to refer to your protocols? I'm trying, but I just can't think of any.

[AZCEP]

Drip rate for Pitocin to control post partum hemorrhage.

The only time I've had to look something up due to limited application of the information.

[Dustdevil]

Drip rate for Pitocin to control post partum hemorrhage.

Yeah, I can definitely understand that. But I don't see drug dosages as "protocols." Now, if you had to look up what the indications for Pitocin were, or what to do in case of post-partum haemorrhage, that would be different.

Looking up how to do something is sometimes necessary in EMS. But looking up what to do in the first place should just very, very rarely ever be necessary for a properly educated practitioner. Especially as limited as EMS interventions are in the first place.

[Medic26]

Yeah, I can definitely understand that. But I don't see drug dosages as "protocols." Now, if you had to look up what the indications for Pitocin were, or what to do in case of post-partum haemorrhage, that would be different.

Looking up how to do something is sometimes necessary in EMS. But looking up what to do in the first place should just very, very rarely ever be necessary for a properly educated practitioner. Especially as limited as EMS interventions are in the first place.

I agree hole-heartedly with this, as far as doctors looking things up all the time. They have far more knowledge and information to retain than a paramedic with our scope of practice. In short we should be able to recall most of our training and protocols without batting an eyelash.

[spenac]

Yeah, I can definitely understand that. But I don't see drug dosages as "protocols." Now, if you had to look up what the indications for Pitocin were, or what to do in case of post-partum haemorrhage, that would be different.

Looking up how to do something is sometimes necessary in EMS. But looking up what to do in the first place should just very, very rarely ever be necessary for a properly educated practitioner. Especially as limited as EMS interventions are in the first place.

Dust in thinking about this, most times referring has been for dosages. In my old job with 90 mile transport I would sometimes refer back to see if I could try something else. Now with all that time when I would get a pneumonia/cardiac/stroke/other patient ( all this in one patient ) I would look back to make double sure I had not missed something or forgot an exception that would allow a little more aggressive treatment.

At my new job where the majority of patients are at the hospital in less than 10 minutes never have referred back to protocols while had a patient. If I had a doubt though I would not hesitate. Only problem is new jobs protocols are much more limited than my old job so hopefully I never revert to my old advanced protocols.