emtannie

North!!!!!!!!!!!!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hope it's a good one.....

ok, now that I have removed my NRB because I was so short of breath from laughing so hard while reading this thread.....

Lone, you did hit it right on the head..... women do that!

We are inherently evil people..... we ask questions that can't be answered, we bring up issues that you thought had died 6 months ago, we can give "that look" that means we think you are the stupidest person in the world... (although, I have to admit, guys have perfected the "who me?" look as a response...)

Life wouldn't be nearly so interesting if we could figure each other out though.... and laughing at it is half the fun!

tniuqs... I know how much you adore those bean counting turned EMTs. They make darn fun pardners non?! don't forget to turn up that hearing aid! :wink:

LOL..... ok, I just had to comment on this...... being a bean counter for many years (a commercial bank manager for 15 years)..... I still have to agree with tniuqs. It is easy to change the fiscal year end so that our fees are not due at the end of December.

And, I as well can answer yes to your questions...

I have tried to be on some of the committees of ACP, most recently the CBT one... and the timing of meetings and the distance I have to travel is prohibitive. Some of the things that could be done by electronic means isn't, and other things they try to and never reach their members.

I haven't figured out if the ACP office is just that understaffed, that incompetent, or that uncaring... and since I couldn't make it to the last AGM (but I did send a proxy!) due to previous scheduling, I am already making sure that I don't schedule anything for this year so I can attend.

Mastabattas, you are right - there is too much apathy among our ranks.... but some of that, I suspect, comes from apathy from ACP. When you try to contact them with legitimate questions, when you call and leave messages, when you email and don't get a response, lots of people are willing to give up, rather than be like the select few who become more vocal.

Personally, I disagree with the fee increase as I cannot see where we are going to get increased benefit for the increase. I agree with tniuqs in that our fees are not comparable with other medical annual fees. I have figured out the profits from running a single weekend EMR exam session, and it is significant. Multiply that by the number of exam sessions, and add our annual fees to that, and although ACP makes a lot of money off us, we don't seem to be getting a good return on our investment.

Hope to see everyone at the AGM.

We have never had any issues with blue ink at the service I work for. A non-EMS career I had previously required blue ink only in order to prove original copies and signatures.

On the patient care reports we used to use ( we too have entered the technology age and use computerized reporting now) they were triplicate, and you had to press hard to just get the third copy to be readable... but the time you got to the third copy, it didn't matter if your original was blue or black, as long as it was legible.

Special forces /operations is a male only profession regardless of how politically incorrect it may seem.

Somedic sends.

My point was regarding anyone who serves their country, not just special ops...

Ask yourself what it is about them that intimidates you, and go from there. Is it because they are more confident and knowledgeable? You will get there! Or is it because they push you around or treat you poorly? If that is the case, stand up for yourself - I hope that isn't the case, but it does happen.

Don't let people intimidate you. Use each time that you work with these people to take the opportunity to learn from them, and soon you won't be intimidated. Ask questions after the call, when they have time to answer them, and learn from them. Continue to educate yourself in all areas.

Don't give up. The more calls you go on, the more comfortable you will get. You will do just fine.

I don't think it was just about double-dipping. Although I think that was probably a part of it, I think that this person is generally such a warped individual that in order to feel good about himself, he had to make up stories about what he was doing in his life to make himself feel better....

Perhaps he suffers from some genetic abherration in which he has no conscience and does not realize that his actions only make him look foolish in the long run... or maybe he is just an incredible jerk who needs to make up lies to feel better about himself.

Unfortunately, the one bad apple analogy applies.... we don't hear enough stories about the men and women who risk their lives every day, and the families and friends who support them....

I agree with Aaron though - let the REAL MEN and WOMEN each get 10 minutes with this lump..... and maybe they can teach him respect for those who serve, and respect for others.

Biggest thing is dispatch needs to stay out of the treatment field.

So when the lady calls and says her husband isn't breathing, I shouldn't give instructions on opening airway, checking for breathing, giving two breaths........ etc..... I should just say "I am sorry your husband is dead ma'am, but the ambulance will be there in about 7 minutes......"

If educated properly, there are pre-arrival instructions dispatch can provide.... and I don't just mean in the above situation..... I have had callers too stupid to get out of a burning building, and when I asked "are you safe and out of danger" they realize that they are still in the burning building....

And...please, please, please for God's sake, give me some clue as to what I'm walking in to. Don't tell me this person called 911 and you can't tell me anything about what is going on or what the medical problem might be. If the caller won't tell you anything, that's one thing. But tell me if there's screaming in the background, if the caller is saying something like "my leg has fallen off," "I'm going to kill you," or "no, put down the ax!"

I would hope that the dispatcher would tell you if they hear anything in the background.... if they didn't tell you, and there was something of importance, they should be disciplined. But until you have taken some of these calls, it isn't as easy as you would think to hear what is in the background all the time.... or to tell if the caller is telling the truth.... I would encourage you to sit in on a few shifts, and listen to the calls.... see what they deal with.

I will admit, even though I have worked 911 dispatch, there are days when I question the intelligence of the dispatcher I get on a call..... there should be protocols for followup after calls. Can you listen to the tapes?

Again... education is the key - uneducated dispatchers is a recipe for disaster. And when Fire, police, EMS, and dispatch have to work together, and dispatch doesn't know what we do, and we don't know what they do, that is also a recipe for disaster...

I think Brent made a number of very valid points. One of the best is that a number of people in EMS don't know what the dispatchers actually do, how busy their job really is, and how difficult it can be to get the right information out of a caller who is a) hysterical altered level of consciousness due to the substance of the day or c) both..

I have worked dispatch as well, and one of the things I always pushed for, and was unsuccessful, was more cross-training..... I wanted the dispatchers to get at least 1 or 2 shift ride-alongs with the medics so that they could see what happens in the field, and I wanted the medics to do 1 or 2 night shifts just watching the dispatchers and listening in on calls, so that they would have a better understanding of what each does.... management thought that would take too much time away from actual work.... *sigh*

I also agree with Dust (I know - this is a rarity) that dispatchers are given too many tasks to do at once, and EMS always seems to be the last priority.

We also forget - everyone can make a mistake.... and although it seems like dispatch makes more than their share, we should consider a few things before burning them at the stake... we don't know how busy they are at the moment that they made that error.. it is possible that the information they gave you was wrong, because the information the caller provided them was wrong.. it is easy to blame dispatch for lots of things without looking at the whole picture.

There are always going to be days when we are less than enthusiastic to do our jobs - the challenge then is to make it through the day, still giving care to the best of our ability.

When those days start to become the norm, instead of the exception, we need to take a serious look at whether we should be in this profession.

It isn't just the patient care that may become the issue - it may be the way we react to and treat our fellow employees... that old lady that we have taken in 6 times in the past week still deserves our best care and attention... but so does that employee who is still the newbie and needs a little guidance.

I have seen people in EMS who have gone from giving incredible care to the little old lady, even though they are so incredibly tired of seeing her and listening to their whining, and then come back into the hall and absolutely crucify the newbie for asking a question or not being fast enough to do a job, or telling the newbie that they can't cut it in EMS because they are having trouble with a difficult call.

When we burn out, when we lose our ability to hold in our negative thoughts, and that translates into less than our best in patient care or in employee relations, we need to seriously question why we are still in EMS.

It isn't just an EMS issue.... any profession with "customer service" has the same issues.

I don't want my family being taken care of by a member who has lost all care, compassion, and empathy..... and I don't want to work with members who have stopped treating their co-workers with respect..... employees who have reached that stage of burnout need to consider leaving or taking a break, or moving into another area of the medical profession for a while.

I found boeing's comment " I thought I would write this because i'm tired of hearing people bitch and moan about doing their job. SHUT UP and do it." interesting..... are they bitching and moaning because they are tired of doing the job, and they are burnt out, or because they are struggling with politics, management, their partner, a call that went bad, or something else? Although I agree that there are some people who will bitch no matter what they are up to, for some it is a cry for help....

When the day comes that I wake up and am not happy to go do my job, that is the day I start looking for work in something else.....

As long as I am digging myself a hole here I figure why stop now? Adoption is something I just don’t get. Why would you want the offspring of someone who cannot care for their offspring? According to me in the vast majority of cases a failure to be able to care for your offspring indicates a failure in life and therefore more then likely a failure in genetics ,biology and environment. Also, how healthy do you think a baby is going to be that has been incubated by someone who doesn’t want it. Why would I quit smoking and drugs and take my folic acid and maternal vitamins to ensure the health of a being that I don’t want and don’t want to raise? The motivation is much less. Anyhoo, I have good genes and functioning reproductive organs and am willing to provide you with offspring for a price. :twisted:

It is a good thing we are allowed to have our own opinions.....

Adoption is 1 answer..... not THE answer..... and I would argue that not all children born out of wedlock are "shallow gene pool" swimmers... there are a number of reasons why someone would put a child up for adoption..... now with this lady that the original post was about..... I would suspect that there was no lifeguard at her gene pool....and her child got the watered down version of that..... but lumping in every child that is put up for adoption into the same category is incredible stereotyping as well..... to try to understand the people who are in this situation, like Dwayne said, we have to look for other answers and other options as well.

And the comment "I can provide you with offspring for a price" comment - although said in jest..... I found offensive.... your complete disregard for the struggles of people who wish to provide a home for a child and can't is disappointing, when you are in a field where compassion, or at least empathy, should be part of your character.

But I digress....... the woman in the original post, obviously had more problems that what appears on the surface... what she did was reprehensible, and to most of us, whatever punishment she receives is not enough.... although we may not agree with her decision, it would be interesting to study her life, and lifestyle, and find out what path she took that led her to this place.... and see if there is an opportunity to use that information to stop someone else from doing the same thing, or if she is truly that messed up that she is just an abherration.

Happy happy happy happy happy birthday! Hope it was a good one....

Having accepted the problem we can now move onto finding solutions. I see two feasible solutions. The first, get those damn pharmaceutical companies doing some research on how to produce an oral contraceptive for men. Condoms just aren't filling the niche (no pun intended). And two, make abortion more easily accessible and affordable. The real question brought to mind here is why are these unwanted babies being born?

Uhoh......

And you missed one...... make adoption a more accessible, viable option.... a number of years ago, my husband and I looked into adoption as we cannot have children. Our provincial social services department told us that the waiting list for a "normal" child was up to 11 years, and for a disabled child, up to 3 years. We also looked into private adoptions, and the legal costs were between $12000 and $15000... And what is the cost for these kids to get pregnant? A couple of shots of tequila?

And back to the original topic - what is the cost to this woman for her actions? I suspect that taxpayer dollars will pay for her medical costs, her mendal health assessment costs, her legal costs (if there are any) and who knows what else... and the cost to her will be nothing...... good thing the rest of us have jobs.....

LOL spenac - I read your first post and it reminded me of some of the calls where a city unit has responded with us to a multi-patient call. It is interesting to hear their comments later about the length of transport time and how hard it can be.

Another stress in rural ems is that there are a number of times when you know your patient, sometimes very well.... large city crews rarely have to deal with a close friend or the relative of a close friend...

I will never say that rural crews are better than urban crews.... both have their strengths and weaknesses and challenges, and we can each learn from each other....

And come on you guys...... you haven't learned to pee out the back door on those long trips????? (j/k)

Well said, Dwayne....

Although I find this woman's actions incredibly unacceptable, and very very sad, I agree.... all of the hollering in the world doesn't bring a solution...

We as a society have become far too complacent when it comes to parents who are incompetent.... we are allowing it to become acceptable for 14 and 15 year olds to keep their children - and then wonder why a child can't raise a child..... we have forgotten to teach people to care for themselves and others... and we have gone too far in allowing the rights of the accused be more important than the rights of the victim....

But back to this woman and child..... at what point did her upbringing, education, and community fail her where she thought her actions were an acceptable option? Or, like some have suggested, is this a case of a person who lacks the ability for rational thought other than opening her legs?

A sad story on all fronts.......

I know that previous exams in Edmonton were held at NAIT, so I am assuming that they will continue to be when they decide that exams are there. I have seen the ACP office... I think I have a bathroom bigger than that office......

I can relate to your dilemma because we are in a similar situation here.

When you present your case to your town council, make sure you have completely done your research. I did some quick calculations, and I would do some homework on your salary statistics. Although on the surface it appears that your total payroll costs will be less than $250,000, it may not be. 365 days x 24 hrs x $10/hr x 2 staff = $175,200, but that does not take into account benefits, holiday pay, or overtime. Depending on what benefits are offered, you can add at least 30 - 50% to that $175000 figure, and that is based on the $10/hr rate. These benefits not only include medical/dental, but disability and life insurance, pension plans, and other possible benefits. You may want to ask around to someone you know who does payroll for another business and ask what the additional costs are, or perhaps your state website has some information on that.

As well, you have to calculate not only the operating costs for your ambulances, but you have to generate enough income to put some funds into reserves for capital replacement. How often do you plan on replacing an ambulance? Three years? Five years? Ten years? These are all things that have to be considered, as the municipality will have to generate income to put a certain % of funds away every year so that when a new unit is needed, there are funds available. They will also have to do the same for larger items on the ambulance, like stretchers, stair chairs, AED's, etc. They then have to account for annual operating costs - maintenance, repairs, restocking of basic supplies, and miscellaneous items. What about uniforms? Who pays for those? And how much? This has to be considered as well... and does paying for a uniform include boots? A winter jacket? These are all items that have to be agreed on.

The above are probably why their figures show that it will cost about $1000 per household. I did a business plan for our ambulance service several years ago and found very similar figures here. Since I spent 15 years as a commercial bank manager and have a degree in economics, I was the one who was "volunteered" do do the same thing you are doing.... to try and get more funding for our service and our staff.

I wish you all the best. We have had some success, but are not full time paid yet..... but at least we get paid per call and our calls get billed for, and the pay at least offsets some of the costs of leaving a day job. We also don't have to pay for our annual recertifications and continuing education as the municipality pays those.

It is a long road, and I wish you well. Feel free to pm me if you have any questions.

Brentoli - thank you for posting this.... the read was exceptional, and all three blog entries were incredibly well-written.

I think your faith is what you make it - yours.... let your actions be your guide.

EMS is not an easy field as we all know, but it does have significant rewards. TO keep strong in your faith, be thankful for the rewards every day, whether they are a partner you can actually deal with on a daily basis, or actually being able to sit down to a meal while on shift. A very wise person told me that if I would spend more time counting my blessings, I wouldn't have time to count my problems.

You have an opportunity to show your faith while at work; however, pushing it on others is not acceptable. Let your actions, however small they may seem, show your faith. Kindness, empathy, and always doing your very best will say more about you than anything you say.

For those who have posted to this thread who have chosen to be insulting, allow them their moment of pettiness. They are entitled to their opinions as much as you are allowed your faith. You will always find those who would rather be insulting than accepting, and arguing does nothing to improve that.

Take care out there.

As a member of this secret society... .

I just wanna know what the secret handshake is..... all secret societies have one, don't they? Or maybe it was a great hat, like the Fraternal Brotherhood of Water Buffalo.

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You expect to need to treat a patient who killed one of your family members?

Unfortunately, it may be a possibility if you live in a rural or remote area. If you work in those kinds of areas, where a number of your calls are people who are known to you, you may end up on a call that is a family member, or in the case of Tyler's question, the patient may be the person who killed your family member. Tyler hasn't specified HOW this patient killed your family member.... it could be violence, or it could be an mvc, or some other method....

I have had the unfortunate experience of having family members as patients, and close friends as patients, and family members of my partner as patients, and in some of these situations the patient has died from their illness or injuries. It isn't nice... but being in a rural area, sometimes there aren't enough other people to step in and for you to step back.... like mike said, you just have to detach yourself and do your job and deal with the emotions later. (and, for clarification, because someone will probably ask me - my closest backup is 30 miles away). I'm not saying it doesn't suck... it does... but it is something you have to be willing to deal with depending on what service you work for.

Are you called to the scene to provide medical care? If you are called to the scene, you are obligated to provide care, as long as the scene is safe. Your personal judgments about this patient cannot be applied to the situation. You do what you have to do, and separate your personal feelings from the situation.

You may be called to this kind of a situation someday, and although it may be uncomfortable, you have the medical obligation to assist the patient, regardless of what happened prior to your arrival.

I get frustrated at the number of mvc calls I go to where someone is dead or seriously injured because they didn't wear their seatbelt... and although I do think "you are an idiot for not wearing your seatbelt" it isn't my place to say that to them. I get frustrated at the number of domestic calls and mvc's I go to where alcohol is a major factor.. but it isn't my place to say "if you hadn't been drinking, this wouldn't have happened."

So, in the situation you described, as long as the scene is safe, and you can attend to the patient, you attend to the patient... even though you may not agree with what they did.

If you can, talk to this person - I know it can be hard.... but they he won't feel like you stabbed him in the back if you go to your supervisor.

If you feel you can't talk to them, and that is understandable too, go to your supervisor. .. and document, document, document.... times, specifics, everything you can think of.... You don't want his lack of work ethic to back you into a corner on a bad call or any other situation.

Above all, maintain your professionalism... keep all your education and skills up, work hard on shift, and be a positive role model - peer pressure can work....

"Pirate Evelyn the Parrotless" aaaarrrggggghhhhh you scurvy dogs.....

Once again, vs-eh, you disappoint me. I have seen you bring legitimate points to a conversation, and I have seen you provide quality input to discussions, but those tend to be few and far between.

You purposely comment in an argumentative manner. As I don't live in Ontario, I looked up the Ontario PCP guidelines. A quote directly from the Ontario Paramedic Association website ( http://www.ontarioparamedic.ca/faqs.html) indicates: "The Primary Care Paramedic (PCP) is a graduate of a Ministry of Health approved college Paramedic Program, has obtained A-EMCA certification, and is employed in an emergency medical service. The function of a PCP is to provide emergency patient care, cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR), patient immobilization, oxygen therapy, basic trauma life support, blood glucose testing, and non-emergency patient care and transportation. "

That appears to sound very similar to EMT-B... but, I will research further.......

And, to remain on topic here, I did research more on EMT-B's as we do not have them where I work either. I tried to find statistics on BLS vs ALS calls (which was amazingly difficult – does no one keep those stats?); one site dated May 2005 states that in Philly, 75% of calls are non-life-threatening. (http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=69986 )

An interesting comment I did find was “there is a great deal of controversy surrounding the benefits of ALS over BLS. ALS interventions, except in specific clinical situations, are not well proven as beneficial. “ (http://www.emsresponder.com/print/Emergency--Medical-Services/Youve-Got-Questions-Research-Has-the-Answers/1$1859). I am not saying I agree with this comment, just that it is interesting...

Part of the American way has always been to put the making of money at the top of the priority list. This is part of what makes basics useful. They provide a service that medics could also provide, but at a much lesser cost to the system. Making all EMS workers paramedics would be wonderful, but the health system in the US wouldn’t be able to withstand the cost pressures. Basics are cheaper to educate, and cheaper to replace.