robert gift

Anyone watching the pt?

Or both riding in front?

Exactly. This is why is it best to prefer, in order:

1. left open thru-lane

2. open lefturn lane

3. an open thru-lane or righturn lane -even if right of occupied lanes (be ready for someone clearing right)

4. going into opposing traffic lane #1

When turning right at a red intersection, I prefer the right turn lane with no siren so drivers ahead can continue right turns on red. (With siren, they may freeze and no one moves nowhere not no how!)

You are asking for right of way. The driver is not required to move forward and get hit (as the motorist killed in front of Lakewood fire truck was).

Nonetheless, he panicked (did they have Yelp sounding?)and did not wait for cross-traffic to stop.

This is why we prefer opposing lane #1 rather than pulling up behind someone stopped at their red signal.

You, not they, take on the risk of getting cross-traffic to stop.

We drive GENTLY, PREDICTABLY, and courteously with as little use of the siren as possible.

gently, predictably and coureously yet you run through red lights if you think the intersection is clear,

I see if they are clear and if no one is approaching.

If you can't verify it is clear, you most slow as necessary and be able to stop if necessary. (Just as the state statute reads.)

I do not stop for the sake of some theoretical "rule" that we should stop at every red signal.

Just as I do not do the ritual of stopping at railroad crossings if I can see both directions down the track that no trains are approaching.

What a ridiculous rule for school and other busses.

you drive into oncoming traffic but you say you only do that when there's lots of room. Whew, keep spouting that nonsense and believing it will only make you sorry in the end.

When necessary, I do drive into oncoming traffic. It is easy to observe if oncoming drivers see the EV and easy to observe how they react.

It is safer than approaching someone from behind, unsure if they even know an EV is approaching, unsure where they will move, IF they will move, or if they will slam on their brakes.

If you push someone out into traffic, even though you didn't ask them to go into traffic is still YOUR FAULT.

I am merely asking for the right of way. I am not directing them to do anything.

NEVER DIRECT ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING!

Even in your POV, if you wave someone to turn in front of you and they collide with another vehicle, you can also be blamed.

You come up behind someone at a stop light and nearly every person (good driver or bad) will try to get out of your way. Sometimes they will pull ahead and then to the right and sometimes they will go into oncoming traffic or into cross traffic and in the end, you will probably not be found at fault in a traffic citation or traffic court but in the court of public opinion and civil court you WILL Lose.

Nonetheless, this is why going around is so much better.

If you go into oncoming traffic it is your fault NO MATTER WHAT? You are not given carte blanche to drive any the hell way you want to. You are not given the right to go into oncoming traffic. Any EVOC instructor will tell you that the oncoming lanes of traffic is the last route you want to go.

It is done routinely by fire and ambulance.

Better than coercing someone to move forward into cross-traffic.

We have a major intersection with a 200+ yard long raised median. Often vehicles are backed-up solid behind the red signal and it takes two signal cycles to get through.

We simply go on the other side of the median and pass everyone silently until we near the intersection.

No one in that pack will be trying to squeeze over, possibly contacting other vehicles, while the EV is trying unsuccessfully to get through the mess.

And no one at the front is going to pull out into cross-traffic.

going into oncoming traffic is a sure fire way to get hit. Even though you can see far away does not mean that other drivers who you are coming at directly in their lanes of traffic can see you. I had to investigate a mva with our ambulance service many years ago that the crew drove into the oncoming lane of traffic. The driver of a small car said she didn't see the ambulance because of the sun in her eyes and she hit the ambulance head on. Two crew members injured, 3 people in her car injured. Your advice that it's "not unsafe at all" is Bad advice.

As autumnal equinox is nearing, we're watching for such situations.

If we see a vehicle coming at us, we stop.

If the vehicle hits us, it is that driver's fault for blindly driving into a stationary object - the same as rear-ending a stopped vehicle ahead.

But legal blame is not the issue. Preventing a collision or mishap in the first place, is.

We do not save A LOT of time not having to wait for traffic signals,

With backed-up traffic it may take more than one signal cycle to get through an intersection.

So even if only 45-second cycles, plus time it takes vehicles to start up and be moving, the time adds up.

Speeding in urban/suburban traffic is where not much time is saved. Speeding there is not worth the risk, pollution and wear and tear.

At an occupied intersection with a green signal, we slow to the speed limit or less if situation (confusion) necessitates. (A family was killed when the drunk father pulled forward through a red signal into the path of a responding Aurora Fire truck.

In active School Zones we slow to the required speed limit - or less as the situation dictates.

The time you save will may be 30 seconds or so but pushing people through the intersection or causing Granpa Jones slam on his brakes at the intersection and subsequently causing Mother Baker to hit him with her car is not worth the risk to other drivers. Most people cannot hear the sirens even with no radio on until the sirens get to less than 100 or so feet away. couple that an airconditioner going or a stereo blaring and there is no way you will be heard.

You cannot count on the siren. Deaf drivers, drivers "deaf" from loud stereos in better sound insulated air conditioned vehicles, etc., may never hear it.

And drivers hearing the siren and looking everywhere for it as they continue.

And drivers who do not know what these "spaz" and gimmick sounds are.

Wail and Yelp are better perceived than gimmick sounds.

Yelp tends to panic some drivers. We use it when Wail seems not to be working.

We do not do the 'Yelp at intersections' nonsense.

And you should never force another vehicle out into oncoming traffic in order to get out of your way.

1. left open thru-lane

2. open lefturn lane

3. an open thru-lane or righturn lane -even if right of occupied lanes (be ready for someone clearing right)

4. going into opposing traffic lane #1

When turning right at a red intersection, I prefer the right turn lane with no siren so drivers ahead can continue right turns on red. (With siren, they may freeze and no one moves nowhere not no how!)

You are ultimately responsible for any action that you cause. If you force a car out into the intersection just so you get through that pesky red light and that car gets creamed by a semi or another car the damnit, YOU are the root cause of their accident and you will be held liable (or should be) for their accident.

Nonetheless, he panicked (did they have Yelp sounding?)and did not wait for cross-traffic to stop.

This is why we prefer opposing lane #1 rather than pulling up behind someone stopped at their red signal.

You, not they, take on the risk of getting cross-traffic to stop.

We drive GENTLY, PREDICTABLY, and courteously with as little use of the siren as possible.

To my knowledge no not yet, but if I hear anything I will let you know. I think the Wife stated

she never saw him do drugs. as did co workers. Just a point in fact I dont know 4c6, yet right off the bat, she is calling me a whiner. I think she is suffering from cranial rectal inversion. Head up her butt. now we could go back and forth calling each other names- but where does this get us.

NO WHERE. Nuff said. Once again everyone is assuming. and you know what happens when people do this. Watch your six, watch out for sam. cheers.

Melody, Timothy K out.

I will assume.

I have never known of a spouse to use drugs without the wife knowing but claiming ignorance.

Any newer information?

Are results of independent findings out?

Did his wife know about the "other" drugs?

http://publicsafety.com/article/article.js...p;siteSection=2

- a 2003 article by Bryan Bledsoe

- statistics in this article show that L&S may improve times statistically, but CLINICALLY they do not make a difference

- the article also reviews EMS fatalities, most of which are motor vehicle related

http://www.emergencydispatch.org/articles/...llingmyths1.htm

- old data from 1989, but shows that most ambulance accidents occur in daylight, and in good road conditions

- The majority of ambulance accidents occurs when making turns or when broadsided at an intersection (hmmmm….. interesting)

- Locations where traffic signaling devices exist present the greatest risk for an ambulance accident to occur. (hmmm…. Interesting)

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/3852764/FIREFI...JURY-STATISTICS

States in part (and note, ambulances are part of these statistics):

NYS DMV Fire Vehicle Accident Reports: Manner of Collision, 2007 (accident not necessarily caused by FD driver)

Top Human Factors Cited:

51 – Failure to Yield Right of Way

36 – Driver Inattention

13 – Unsafe Backing

13 – Unsafe speed

12 – passing or lane change improper

(Hmmmmm – interesting)

It would appear that the vast majority of accidents are caused by driver error – no big surprise. Then, it would make sense that we enact laws to reduce the possibility of driver error – LIKE STOPPING AT RED LIGHTS, instead of flying through and having an accident. Just because you THINK the intersection is clear, doesn’t mean it is.

It would appear from your comments, that you feel like the laws are put in place due to stupidity. Well, yes they are… they are put in place to protect us from those who refuse to see that slowing down, stopping (heaven forbid) and taking those few extra seconds DOES protect us.

Robert, could you please post some studies on how running red lights and speeding improves patient outcomes?

I would like to see the scientific evidence to support your comment “Merely that following some ridiculous "rule" that lengthens response time, causes more traffic impediment, more wear and tear on the vehicle, more fuel use and pollution by everyone - is needless.”

Until you can show me the studies showing that your methods are better, I will not believe a word you say. I can provide more references to support my position. Can you?

And, I think you should again review the link I provided in my previous post:

http://www.coloradoautoinjuries.com/Auto_A..._Accidents.aspx

It would appear that Colorado law isn’t going to back you when you slam into someone doing 90…..

Sorry, did not see your previous link.

Thank you for your research and stats.

Who said anything about "flying through intersections"?

And who is going to "slam into someone at 90" mph?

Going into opposing lanes takes pressure off drivers ahead who may move forward into traffic.

Also lessens vehicles maneuvering to get out of the way from bumping.

(A woman in lane one moved right. Woman in lane two moved forward causing damage.

That Rural/Metro Ambulance could easily have gone around, not holding up everyone while

drivers figured what to do and maneuvered. The signal had already turned green

but no one noticed because they were maneuvering!)

Fortunately, Colorado does not have laws prohibiting smart moves.

I failed to mention my best advice.

Assume there is a straying toddler out there.

No matter what he has done, no matter how wrong he is, you can't hit him no matter what.

Ok I really dont know what the hell that means.

It is an analogy which could happen.

Around a blind corner could be a toddler who does not know the meaning of your siren and that he should get out of the street.

The toddler could be anyone, drunk/drugs, incompetent, deaf or blind, etc.

We must compensate for other's mistakes and not allow a terrible outcome.

Locomotive engineers are they only ones to which this does not apply.

Yes, these rules are made for those that you can not allow to think on their own.

And let it be known yes I can be allowed to think on my own

Good.

But the ridiculous rules won't allow it.

You MUST stop at red signals, even if all cross-traffic has stopped or there is no traffic present or approaching.*

You MUST stop at Stop signs, even if no one else is present or approaching.

You MUST blare the siren into citizen's homes and businesses, even if no one is in your way.

*Recently, westbound signalling turning south, I stopped at a rather open intersection because I was not convinced a northbound driver was going to stop.

Southbound driver, who had stopped, took off, not wanting to wait.

You know, Robert; with all the 'qualifications' that you brag about having, I'm completely at a loss to understand how you can advocate such reckless behavior, but I think you summed up the full effect of your 'qualifications' best when you said:

Nothing to "brag" about.

What is reckless about not stopping at red signals when there is no traffic, or when all traffic has stopped?

Is it contrary to some religious ritual?

Have I espoused that one may "run" through such intersections?

Merely that following some ridiculous "rule" that lengthens response time, causes more traffic impediment, more wear and tear on the vehicle, more fuel use and pollution by everyone - is needless.

And the Colorado statute also follows that reasoning.

No, anyone driving that fast should have their license pulled, driving priveliges suspended, and never let behind the wheel of an emergency vehicle ever again! There is absolutely NO REASON to EVER go that fast in an ambulance, (or fire apparatus)!

Are you going to travel only 10 mph over the 75 Speed Limit and have others wanting you out of their way?

If conditions allow, there is no problem with making better time to the scene than to follow some assigned speed limit.

Speed limits are conservative - meaning they are posted lower than what the road is engineered for.

In open expanses on dry level Interstates, 15 mph over the speed limit is no problem.

With all of the nonsense you've been posting here lately, the only thing you're actually accomplishing is irrevocably destroying any credibility you may have ever had. The days of Mother, Jugs and Speed EMS are long over! You really need to check in with 'reality' and scope out how we do things here in the 'real world'!

What I find really 'odd' is that in your rants about the UK ambulance drivers running 'fake calls', you were INCENSED that they were driving like a bat out of hell, going nowhere; and yet you're advocating putting EVERYONE that even remotely comes near you in danger, because you want to drive 'balls to the wall' to get to a call! How are we supposed to stand in awe of your 'credentials' when you so BLATANTLY contradict everything that you're supposed to be teaching people to keep them safe?

Why do you erroneously state I complained "bat out of hell" when I never said such nor observed them doing that?

They are FAKE runs. Not emergencies. Taking right of way from others, causing traffic impediment and disruption, makng others move off the roadway possibly causing vehicle damage or tire damage, exposing others to hazards - is not justified for fake runs.

They can accomplish the same practice without lights and siren.

Actually, cars behind a school bus at an RRXing do not legally have to stop and wait for it to pass through. Its safer that they do, especially if they cant see around the bus well enough... but they do not have to wait by law.

I dont know about crossings where your at... but where Im from, you cant see miles down a track. The only exempt tracks are inactive ones. I support it 100%.

It shouldnt take that much time to evac a bus, I agree... but if youve been in EMS long enough you should know better that crazy things happen.

No complaints about stopping when limited visibility.

Would be horrible to have children harmed because of a grade crossing signal failure - though I have never heard of even one.

Four lanes, two each direction, so vehicles could easily have used lane one to pass the bus, as I did.

Colorado has had two terrible school bus train collisions. Late 40s and early 60s.

How long it takes to get unrehearsed students out?

Hmmm well since your the AAA driving instructor you know better than I would. Ive only driven a school bus, so I wouldnt know. In some states its law so bitch to your congressman not the bus driver. The think about 60 or so kids being killed in the one instance that procedures arnt followed. But again what would any of us know... because we arnt allowed to blow red lights and drive like total jack asses like your company apparently allows.

The point is that it is needless.

Think how many gallons of fuel is wasted, pollution generated not only by the buses but also the trucks and automobiles behind.

Kind of relates to impeding traffic when needlessly stopping at red signals.

Is it religious ritual, which has absolutely no value?

When bus drivers can see no train for miles, why do all the waste?

Your sixty students won't be injured much by the non existant train.

But maybe slightly bruised when rear-ended by the truck.

I also have a bus license. They should make that crossing [EXEMPT]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

Brilliant reply.

But you're not in the picture.

Wrong end.

If you don't like it, don't read it. Duh!

Just saw a bus stop at a railroad crossing with (o)=(o) , gates and bells.

Unobstructed view down the track a mile in both directions.

Yet, the bus slows, puts on emergency flashers, stops and then proceeds.

A red sports car behind it almost rear-ended the bus and came partially into our lane.

What a waste of fuel, pollution as the bus accelerated, brake wear, engine and drive train wear and tear, passenger discomfort, times how many occurances each day - all for nothing.

Bus was more of a hazard slowly accelerating over that track than just crossing at the speed limit.

Alternatively do you know the real world? Yes, these rules are made for those that you can not allow to think on their own. Unfortunately, it's much easier to make rules to cover the lowest common denominator and make everyone conform than to have one set of rules covering those that cannot make good decisions and a separate set of rules for those that can make good decisions.

Good point.

Best is to get everyone to make good decisions.

This reminds me of some of my rides in railroad locomotives for Operation Lifesaver.

We are now getting into the late evening hours.

Ahead we can see the grade crossing signals, bells, lights, gates are operating perfectly as always.

No one is around.

Still, the engineer has me blast the horns as usual, which I know is going into everyone's homes.

Next week, the crossings will be designated Quiet Zones where horn is not required.

Until then, he still blows.

ruffems, can you please redo your post so that I may respond?

This won't copy it.

If you are driving 90, and we do!, and you see another car approaching, you slow - just in case the driver is not expecting you to be nearing that fast.

You drive for conditions, which means (includes) complications of others and road surface, etc.

(On I-70, I had to slow way down for deer. You never know what they will do. I also turned off the lights.)

Robert, you have just proven that you should never be put behind an emergency vehicle ever ever ever again.

"there is also no speed limit" is just plain asinine to say.

I think you are just messing with us.

You really disturb me and your advice is just plain wrong

DISCLAIMER to all those who have no ems driving experience and are using this thread to get some pointers

ROBERT is NOT someone who you should take any advice about driving from. Please if you do be prepared to accept the consequences of your actions.

Then explain why.

Each point.

There is no prescribed speed over which you should not exceed. (In Colorado)

Example: Some believe they cannot exceed the speed limit by more than 10 mph.

So what are they doing?

They are looking for speed limit signs.

They are also looking down at their speedometers to make sure they are not traveling faster than "45 in a 35 mph zone".

What should they be doing?

Looking out and driving for conditions, whatever they may be, which may require operating under the posted speed limit.

Should I also add a disclaimer?:

Does ruffems know the REAL world?

Must one obey all his little rules - made for those who do not think.

-Boys and girls, we must always have our little sirens going.

-We must always stop at red signals and stop signs.

-We must never exceed the speed limit by more than -n- mph.

I failed to mention my best advice.

Assume there is a straying toddler out there.

No matter what he has done, no matter how wrong he is, you can't hit him no matter what.

Disclaimer: I did not finish reading any posts following these. I know I should know better and Im sure many of you who know me on here can vouch for that. If this part of the discusion has ended I appologize but I just cant leave this alone. I am sorry. Additionaly if I make any course statements, I appologize but this almost offends me and I need to blow some smoke.

My heart just sank very deeply. This is the scariest "honest" statement I have ever heard next to a freind admiting she knelt on the chest of a combative patient. Actually this is worse.

Whos time are you wasting if your dead? Whos time are you wasting if you cause a major accident and have to delay response elsewhere to treat thoes involved? I was going to let it go when you initially stated you dont stop for red lights... even though you emphasized it. But then you post such an arrogant statements as you did in your post to follow it up? You do not belong behind the wheel of an emergency vehicle.

Assume for a moment your approaching this said clear intersection where everyone has stopped. DO YOU KNOW THAT THOES CARS WILL WAIT FOR YOU? DO YOU KNOW THAT NO ONE WILL RUN ACCROSS THE ROAD IN FRONT OF YOU? DO YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO LOOK AT LEAST 50-100 YARDS UP EVERY SINGLE CROSS ROAD AND MAKE SURE THAT NO ONE IS SPEEDING DOWN TO THE INTERSECTION BEFORE YOU EVEN GET TO THE INTERSECTION?

You brother are incredibly arrogant. I can only hope that your not nearly as wreckless as the statements you have made. I have held a commercial drivers license for some time now as well as EVOC... and it shouldnt take either to know that you can be the safest driver on the road, your still in danger of others around you.

Do you think you have what it takes to be involved in the loss of a life? A former coworker of mine was driving lights and sirens to a hospital... struck by a drunk driver coming around a blind turn. The drunk driver was killed. My friend was not found at fault but to this day suffers from PTSD from the incident.

HOW LONG HAVE YOU HAD YOUR DRIVERS LICENSE?

Ok Im stepping off my pedistal now.

Stop apologizing for speaking your peace, oh holier than thou One.

Practicality. Not arrogance.

Driving since 1968.

AAA Driver instructor during college summer breaks starting 1971.

Teaching EV driving 1976 because I was driver instructor. (Before EVOC)

EVOC instructor, 2000.

But that means nothing.

You can do your "ritual" and pretend to dead stop at every red signal, avoiding colliding with nonexistent vehicles, motorcycles, bicycles, pedestrians.

You can also blow your little siren continuously, annoying people in their homes, warning non existent drivers, motorcyclists, bicyclists, pedestrians.

There are few accidents.

Don't let mishaps happen.

You make sure you are clear.

Sorry about your friend.

When I drive, I cannot know if there is a drunk, incompetent, deaf person or straying toddler around a blind corner.

So I slow ready and able to avoid/evade.

Likewise, when I come to a four-way stop intersection, if I can clearly see no one is present or approaching,

I proceed without stopping and with no siren.

If no one is there, does it matter that I am breaking some of your rules?

Well personally if im awake so is everyone else As far as I am concerned I drive to the law Stop at stop signs ec. The only thing that is allowable is that I am allowed to drive 25km faster than the posted speed limit.

Out of curiousity Robert did you respond to the Has your ambulance been pulled over by the cops? Im thinking that you may have a few stories.

Never got caught!

No, as indicated above, there is no requirement to stop.

There is also no speed limit.

I also favor that so that the driver is looking out and not looking down at the speedometer and calculating the do not exceed speed.

In February, 1977, I got broad sided by the one vehicle traveling in the left hand lane going westbound, on a major east/west thoroughfare, that didn't see that all other east/west traffic had stopped for my southbound ambulance that was turning east. My partner had lights and siren on, and cannot blame the sun in the Eldorado driver's eyes, as it was roughly 10 PM, on a clear night.

No, the L&S are not automatic clear right of way, but a clamoring for right of way to be yielded by the other drivers to you. Crossing against the traffic signal should be by eye contact with the drivers in each lane, one at a time.

Someone said, "".

Wrong, Wrong, WRONG! It will end up badly, with you having the forward corners of both the emergency vehicle and the other vehicle connecting. The impact will spin out one or both of the involved vehicles, and smash into other vehicles, possibly causing multiple spin-outs and collisions. I wish that on no emergency vehicle, or civilian vehicle. As already indicated, crossing against the traffic signal should be by eye contact with the drivers in each lane, one at a time. If it is 3 lanes in each direction, let it mean 6 individual stops to make the crossing safely.

Since police, fire and EMS park with ALL lights needlessly operating, when they see you stopped they think you are parked.

By the time they hear the siren, they are too close and it is too late to stop.

(There should be a rule that when parked, only slower flashing lights operate, no 360s, strobes or such.)

Don't go charging into the intersection.

Slowly maintain forward progress so they see and understand.

Of course, stop if necessary.

Likewise, I dont' stop if we see everyone has stopped.

It just slows our progress and makes everyonelse wait longer.

But a driver may be merrily traveling in his open lane approaching his green signal, oblivious why everyonelse around him has stopped for their green signal.

So you don't enter that lane unless you can see no one is coming.

(Saw Denver Police nearly get smacked doing that.)

At some intersections, where we can't see if it is clear, we must slow and stop if necessary before continuing.

Colorado Revised Statutes:

42-4-108. exceptions for emergency vehicles... (2) ... The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle may: ... (B.) Proceed past

a red or stop signal or stop sign, but only after slowing down as may be necessary for safe operation.

We don't stop unless we need to.

"We DO NOT stop at RED signals unless we cannot see if all cross traffic has stopped>"

HOLY CRAPOLA(shit) BATMAN, you've got to be kidding? You really didn't just write that did you?

If you did then your company's driving policy should be revamped and fixed.

Not stopping at red signals unless you cannot see if all cross traffic has stopped, what about the driver who has a clear lane of traffic and HAS the green light. He goes on his merry way driving thru the green and you bust the red light, WHAM you've just been hit or worse yet You've just broadsided a guy who had the green and now you've hurt this guy or yourself and your partner.

Please stop while you are ahead and stop giving out bad information and advice. STOP STOP STOP

You are just wasting your time and everyonelse's.

OF COURSE you ensure that there is no one proceeding through their open lane under their GREEN signal before entering their lane.

(Northbound vehicles in lanes three, two and one had stopped for the westbound EV.

I am now in the middle of the intersection.

Even though minority-appearing woman in southbound lane one had clear view and had plenty of time to slow and stop, I am not convinced she will.

She somewhat slows but continues forward. With my bumper against her lane, the siren was blasting into her vehicle has she passed right in front.

No problem because I had stopped.)

A fire truck halted by unrelenting traffic at a similar intersection often has to have a firefighter flag traffic.

By the time drivers hear the truck's siren, and realize the fire truck is not parked but trying to cross, it is too late to stop.

This improved when the driver learned to NOT STOP, but slow and keep moving forward so that drivers could see he was not parked.

Still, sometimes we need to stop and flag.

We save a lot of time - often more than just one signal cycle's worth of backed-up traffic.

robert do you really believe what you wrote?

going into oncoming traffic is a sure fire way to get hit. Even though you can see far away does not mean that other drivers who you are coming at directly in their lanes of traffic can see you. I had to investigate a mva with our ambulance service many years ago that the crew drove into the oncoming lane of traffic. The driver of a small car said she didn't see the ambulance because of the sun in her eyes and she hit the ambulance head on. Two crew members injured, 3 people in her car injured. Your advice that it's "not unsafe at all" is Bad advice.

We do not save A LOT of time not having to wait for traffic signals, The time you save will may be 30 seconds or so but pushing people through the intersection or causing Granpa Jones slam on his brakes at the intersection and subsequently causing Mother Baker to hit him with her car is not worth the risk to other drivers. Most people cannot hear the sirens even with no radio on until the sirens get to less than 100 or so feet away. couple that an airconditioner going or a stereo blaring and there is no way you will be heard.

And you should never force another vehicle out into oncoming traffic in order to get out of your way.

You are ultimately responsible for any action that you cause. If you force a car out into the intersection just so you get through that pesky red light and that car gets creamed by a semi or another car the damnit, YOU are the root cause of their accident and you will be held liable (or should be) for their accident.

Please think before you post in the future, the advice you gave above was just plain BAD!

But I do not do it when the sun is low behind me - a good point I failed to list! (I also don't bicycle with the sun low in front of me.)

If a vehicle comes at me, I stop.

If the vehicle were to continue coming at me, I would blast the horn and even back or make evasive move.

If vehicle hits me, dead stopped with lights, headlight flashers, siren, horn, - their fault entirely. (No different than rear-ending a vehicle stopped in front of them.)

(But being their fault entirely does no one any good.)

Who would be stupid enough to go blindly forward if they cannot see into what they are driving?

Some drivers. So we're ready for them.

Going into opposing lane is far better than influencing someone ahead to pull forward into cross-traffic.

With better sound-proofed vehicles with better stereos and air conditioning, we never count on the siren being heard, so don't count on the siren stopping cross-traffic.

I often don't have it sounding unless useful.

We DO NOT stop at RED signals unless we cannot see if all cross traffic has stopped.

We save a lot of time, - often more than just one signal cycle worth of backed-up traffic.

And we're in and out of the intersection and not confusing or impeding traffic. The sooner I get out of everyonelse's way, the better.

I would like some input on responding with lights and siren when the light is red and the traffic is jammed. What would you do?

Also, the same scenario but crossing over onto oncoming traffic. The majority dispatched calls are emergency where I work and we have to respond with lights and siren. Even though alot of times once we arrive on the scene there're not. I am being told conflicting stories. I just want to hear more input on the response because I just started working.

If you can see far enough ahead that no left turn lanes are available, or you can't get to them, just get on the opposing traffic side of the raised median and proceed against traffic.

Not unsafe at all.

Opposing traffic, now after their intersection and moving, cannot help but see you, and, since you are in their lane 1, will most often move to their right.

Much easier and more expedient than trying to get stopped vehicles ahead to clear a path.

Many stopped drivers are afraid of moving into other vehicles or objects, even when you can see they have adequate room.

Also, you don't encourage vehicles ahead to pull forward into the intersection in harm's way, though they are legally allowed to do it.

We silence the siren as soon as we can see drivers are aware of the EV.

No use "yelling" at them - which is what a siren is doing. They know you're there.

Lakewood FD was responding eastbound.

I was told they came up behind an eastbound vehicle in lane 1 stopped for his RED signal.

He moved forward and was broadsided by a southbound vehicle with GREEN and killed.

Firefighters did not like my confonting why they did not just go around the median

and take the hazards of trying to get through, themselves.

Instead, they "coerced" the citizen to move out of their way.

Nonsense about saving minimal time.

We save A LOT of time not having to wait in line for traffic signals which may take two cycles to get through. Sometimes three cycles for left turns.

Speed does not save much time, and it is not worth the risk.

How do you know he didn't have a 12-lead?

How do you know it would have shown something?

How do you know that if it was done and it did show something non-specific that the death could have been prevented for sure?

You're making it seem like if it had been a top notch doctor, he would have lived for sure.

How the heck do you keep someone salvageable if they go into asystole? His body either has the ability to survive if all medical interventions are done perfectly or it doesn't (and no matter what is done, he would have died)?

Seriously, do you understand medicine?

Medicine is crude science, not magic...

Nature doesn't go "oh, they did all their procedures right, so I'll go ahead and let this guy survive". In the end nature wins, regardless of what we do, even at 50 and "not obese" (as if that were the determining fact - eye roll - )

I don't know.

Merely conjecture, hoping someone will provide updated information and missing information.

Maybe not even a witnessed arrest.

Did his "keepers" call the physician rather than EMS?

Excerpt from www.essortment.com

During the Baroque period, 1600 to 1750, male sopranos and altos comprised about 70 percent of all operatic singers.

Male sopranos in opera were a matter of necessity. Women, especially in countries where the Catholic Church had firm control, were forbidden on the stage so castrati played both the women’s parts and the hero as well. Nearly every church choir used pre-pubescent boys to sing the high parts in choral works because women were also not allowed to participate in church services. Thus, the finest of the boy sopranos were picked by music masters for castration.

During puberty a boy’s vocal chords enlarge enormously, caused by an increased production of anderogen hormones. Castration prevented the necessary flow of hormones and arrested growth. Afterwards the castrato would have the high voice of a boy soprano, but the lung power of a full-grown man.

Castration was performed by cutting the blood supply to the testicles, or by amputating them altogether. The victim was placed in a warm bath to soften the testes and the operation was performed after the patient was rendered unconscious.

How? Alcohol?

After recovery, the boy would begin an intensive study of music and singing that could sometimes last ten years or more.

Although castration did little to damage a castrato's intellect, it did pose serious health and emotional problems. Most castrati suffered from the effects of developmental hypogonadism, including infantile penis and an underdeveloped prostate. They also had more developed subcutaneous fat than the normal male, fat deposits localized on the hips, buttocks and breast areas, fatty deposits on the eyelids, and skin that sometimes appeared wrinkled or swollen. The arms and legs of many castrati were unusually long as compared to the torso (the long bones never stopped growing), which made them look distorted.

Many of the castrati’s well-documented personality disorders were a direct result of their disfigurement, as well as their inability to lead normal sex lives. They were neither man nor woman, but something in between. On one hand they were much admired for their singing, but on the other they were taunted unmercifully about their condition.

Castrati tended to be fat, volatile, conceited, and almost impossible to get along with.

Composer George Frederick Handel’s notorious shouting matches with his castrato Senesino, for instance, were well-known throughout England.

On the other hand, especially when it suited their purposes, a castrato could be entirely charming. Sometimes they were so respected and adored that they were able to gain great political influence.

The last performance of an operatic castrato in an opera was in London in 1825. Giovanni Battista Velluti performed in Meyerbeer’s “Il Crociato.” Underemployed, Velluti had hoped for a comeback of the castrato to the opera. But by then, London had not heard the voice of a castrato in over 25 years. In a city that had welcomed Senesino with open arms a century before, the local newspapers now implored their readers not to allow women into the theater to witness such a travesty of nature.

Velluti, the last operatic castrato, died of old age in 1861 -- a relic of a past that could not be resurrected.

Heard a rumor that MJ may have been a castrated as a kid. In order to keep singing high notes.

Happened all the time in italy. last century. not kidding.

What a way to go.

RIP. Cheers.

Can't imagine that something that barbaric would be done, or allowed, in the 20th Century.

Johann Sebastian Bach and others even wrote parts for castrati.

How did they "surgically" accomplish such castrations then without anesthesia and without infections?

Horrible.

But I do not believe MJ was altered.

Oh, I see applied logic here so are you are stating you are an atheist ?

Swear to God!

Naah, ah ain't a atheist.

I is what is called, agnostic.

Actually, 'militant agnostic'. I don't know and neither do you!

You have no examples to follow to lead you in your life, very sad so what do you believe in ?

Who say dat?

You?

Do you need to follow someone?

I don't. So glad for it.

I believe in honor of my comrades and service to my patients, no matter what their beliefs may be, it could be this is my religion in fact ... dare I commit.

You call that religion?

Look it up.

Query: I believe your US currency states "IN GOD WE TRUST" it built your nation did it not ? But then again I could be in error and a sad state of affairs, really with no belief in Santa.

Irrelevent.

Please, others have attempted to take a knife to a gun fight with me

Apparently you need to load that gun.

and I KNOW that many that are just waking up on EMT city and can be armed to the teeth, you indeed are asking for more conflict ... or is that what you wish for perhaps .... some guidance, some dirrection ?

I'm always open to discussion.

Personally since you ask I try to have respect for others beliefs, as for my own,

I have no respect for lies and man-made myths.

Do you?

I will not commit as you are not worthy at this time, you have many miles to walk to become my equal.

Humble, are we? (But I like your directness!.)

Yes, I'd have to walk miles backwards to meet you. Unwilling.

FYI:

In Buddhism, karma (Pāli kamma) is strictly distinguished from vipāka, meaning "fruit" or "result". Karma is categorized within the group or groups of cause (Pāli hetu) in the chain of cause and effect, where it comprises the elements of "volitional activities" (Pali sankhara) and "action" (Pali bhava). Any action is understood to create "seeds" in the mind that will sprout into the appropriate result (Pāli vipaka) when they meet with the right conditions. Most types of karmas, with good or bad results, will keep one within the wheel of samsāra; others will liberate one to nirvāna.

Buddhism relates karma directly to motives behind an action. Motivation usually makes the difference between "good" and "bad", but included in the motivation is also the aspect of ignorance; so a well-intended action from an ignorant mind can easily be "bad" in the sense that it creates unpleasant results for the "actor".

Say what?

I wish karma existed.

I have done so much good, in so many areas, for so many people and plants and animals (no rocks), for so much of my life, I would look forward to karma.

Alas, it is but another man-made myth.

Does HE have Children, like you know if he was killed in a house fire saving a basement ?

Wuh?

Where would that be ? Respect for the dead ?

Wuh?

24 hours after his memorial ? WOW, great taste, maybe you would like to tell a Princess Diane death joke too?

Too long ago. I began hearing them within hours of her death.

Now a glimmer of hope from your friend and I once again hope that M.J.'s children NEVER read your poor attempt black humor.

They will learn of them from many other sources long before here.

What is now most interesting is you R.G. .... as you hang on my every word,

Are your words are that lofty?

I bet many others are laughing at your continued stupidity.

Who cares?

I pray to my spirit guide that they will be shielded,

How about your spirit guide intervening and not allowing their father to die?

That's a lot better than "shielding".

Probably contrary to spirit guide rule: 86, subsection 1.

you now face a choice Robert, I can be a mentor or _________ !

Spirit guide?

Who told you to believe in that nonsense?

My spirit guide say your spirit guide wrong. (Mine Asian)

So there.

But thank you for your offer, Oh Humble One.

cheers

Sorry that all the quotes do not appear. Am I replying incorrectly?

I'd have to disagree.. He was a pretty energetic entertainer, practicing some of his dancing could be equated to strenuous activity. He was never one to just stand, sing, and let everyone else do the work.

I expected him to be in really good shape, he appeared lean, which is why I am so surprised at his sudden death.

I did not know that he was working out.

Still shocked, surprised and saddened.

Well Lone Star well we tried , I do believe in Karma as I know that you do my friend.

In my experience, somehow I have managed clearly to define the difference of stupidity and ignorance.

1- Stupidity is defined as continuing to make the same errors (as there is no excuse for stupidity)

2- Ignorance is not understanding but seeking the knowledge to understand.

Now if we could just all live by these words, I pray to my GOD that Michaels children will be shielded from these types of commentary.

Then just then the world MAY become a better place.

cheers

If you believe in karma, then apparently you believe in Santa Claus and/or religions.

The MJ joke was told to me by a firefighter.

He'd tell you to take your holier-than-thou attitude and shove it.

I am sure there are many other similar MJ jokes.

My Californiacquaintance, who knew Michael personally, says he would never be inappropriate with children.

I believe him. I believe Michael was set up and falsely accused.

Do you really think his children will be reading here?