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Hell even us hose monkeys go through a "probationary" period after we are certified firefighters. Why should you not have a 6 month/1 year/ whatever "probationary" or internship period, to make sure the skills taught are the skills being used?

AK, I agree with you, but I want to fix the problem without causing others. When schools do career days, you rarely see EMS or hell even fire involved in the event. It is usually after schooling before anyone considers going into EMS. I agree in the degreed program, but how are students supposed to select it without it being known to get an education in EMS before you head back to the family ranch. I am not pointing fingers to anyone in this post, but I see a lot of "we should get rid of this" without weighing the consequences, much less putting an effort in to anything off the computer.

=D> Here is my point.. For the most part we agree that education should be brought up, but my concern is not for the rural basics and medics, it is for the people who live in rural areas that at some point will be patients. Now with that said how do we come up with a solution to the education problem? Can we take it to an actual national system, and have rural agencies cetified to a certain level to get the patient close enough for a more advanced medic unit from an urban area to intercept?

Alright, so maybe we need to back up and cover this again, this is a thread about education! Not whether or not to eliminate volunteers, but how would you expand their education. It is also not a thread about some made up fantasy certification level of a basic who wants the glory of ALS without the time invested. And I have yet to post ANYTHING about the public! So, if anyone would like to respond to my questions without diversion, please do so.

I don't understand where you are coming from with this statement. I am talking of ambulance districts with 10,000 or less people, that are still too far out for "paid" city providors to cover. If they are gone who covers these areas? In a "urban" environment you have short commuting distances to class which makes time management a lot easier, and a bigger pool of students, in rural settings you have to deal with items such as calving, harvesting, planting of crops, and that is just spring/summer, plus lower population. I agree whole heartedly, but I disagree with "cutting the fat" before you have an organized effort and a solid plan.

Alright I am merely taking up the suggestion of starting a new thread for debate! (Dust if this is already covered extensively please point it out and we can move to thtat thread) Now I am NOT trying to down play education, which alot of you interpret me as doing, but I do have some questions and concerns. I do agree with a "nationalized" system instead of state by state regs. I do have concerns with going to an AS and BS requirement, what would be the bridge to cover the transition, you couldn't just apply it over night. Intermediate, while it may not be practical in an urban setting is still viable in rural settings IMHO. As far as rural departments "holding" on to stuff, how would you propose they obtain the higher education? They would have to quit their family supporting job to obtain the proposed education. I know to urban personnel it is not that big of a deal, but most rural providors do the job as a volunteer whether fully or paid on call/paid by call, and their is no second option due to travel times from urban areas. Pre-response request, don't turn this thread into a shooting match just because you disagree with what I have said on education.

Sure it will ITK, but only with people that talk out their mouth! :wink:

Rid, I don't know if I am agreeing with your statements for the same reason you wrote them, but I agree.

Please show me where I have overstepped my quals! You are not my superior, for all I know you are simply posing as a Paramedic on the internet to feel good!

WTF?? What pansy pushing corner of the world did you come from? I did not threaten nor was I any more aggressive than anyone else here!! Telling someone to get off their high horse or I will shoot it is threatening??? Maybe, if you really own a high horse and are afraid I will kill it! Man what is this world coming too!! Do me a favor leave the policing to the moderators! I did not come out swinging I simply posted MY opinion about Paramedics, if that doesn't fit in your peace loving hippy world don't read the thread!!!

I will give you as much as you give me, you want to bash on my "education" at the basic level, I will come right back at you guys with your faults, otherwise that just wouldn't be fair now would it???? As I have said before but ignorance seems to cloud the issue so pardon the caps I want you to see it...................I BELIEVE IN EDUCATION!!!! But don't fault me for liking where I am as a basic, if you want more go for more, but don't bash on me for what I am and what I do!!

Great for Canada, but I am not there nor care to visit!! If you don't like what basic's are permitted to do CHANGE IT or accept the invite to shut up!! Ditch the attitudes and I will give you a new name, but for now if the shoe fits...........

Then here is an idea for you if you think basics are such a bad deal.........BECOME A PARAMEDIC, if we basics are so G'damn dangerous why are there still classes being taught? Why are certificates still being issued? There are enough medics out there that if basics were so dangerous they could get them wiped out. Good for you guys getting more education, but it is pretty damn ignorant of you to make the assumption that I have not furthered my education, I just simply choose to stay at the basic level rather than be lumped in with crappy attitudes that are displayed proudly on this site. You had to have known when you went to EMT class what you were getting into, if not then the blame lays on you. If the PARAGODS want to get rid of basic's then do it, otherwise stop bellyaching and bashing on other levels and professions, this relates back to my you aren't professionals because of attitude. And BEorP I have no issue with being a driver but it's my choice not yours! ZippyRN I have never once said to have dual basics or even hinted at giving them seniority, nice attempt at a spin though!!!

Again attitudes and egos prevail!!! A BASIC IS A BASIC if you want advanced training then go for it, I have nothing against education AT ALL! I do have problems with EMT-B's wanting more for less, which is what this thread was about and I have problems with Paramedics wanting to get rid of basics because they are too basic. I also have a problem with the king shit attitudes that you guys come out of class with, there is a reason I am a basic..........I ONLY WANT TO BE A BASIC and if checking pulses and applying O2 is all I want to do that is all I will do. if you guys would slow down and READ you would see my problem is the same as yours just through different eyes and words, but you are ALL hell bent to justify and prove your worth that you see something you disagree with and get tunnel vision

We are far from under educated, we are Basics plain and simple no two ways about it........you knew that when you took the course! If you want to be "advanced" go for it, your patch will then read "PARAMEDIC" which is how it should be! If you are lacking in skills or education you did not investigate what you were getting into, I am full aware of what is coming and I welcome it, because I love fired up people that's how shit gets accomplished, not by whining about it on a flippin internet site. you want advanced skills go to school and get a job as a Paramedic otherwise stick to the basics Rid I do not disagree with education and advanced care......I do disagree paying two paramedics for their skills when one of them has to be the driver (not much use for ALS skills behind a steering wheel, although I am sure dust will make an argument for that one). Why should a hospital trip get expensive just so you have an equal to talk to. Open invite for you to come and educate me Dust!!!! And the last I heard from you was whining and complaining about not being on the same level with us lowly firemen when it comes to money and respect, considering fire is taking over EMS I am qualified to speak of how I am ramming you out of your "profession".

do I bow now or after I catch my breath???? Paramedic attitudess will be the demise of our profession, so get as much praise as you can for your two years "ed"

Maybe I no understand the english very well.............I do not see no EMT-I nowhere on that site.

PORTLAND, Ore. - An Oregon man who went to a hospital complaining of a headache was found to have 12 nails embedded in his skull from a suicide attempt with a nail gun, doctors say. Surgeons removed the nails with needle-nosed pliers and a drill, and the man survived with no serious lasting effects, according to a report on the medical oddity in the current issue of the Journal of Neurosurgery. The unidentified 33-year-old man was suicidal and high on methamphetamine last year when he fired the nails - up to 2 inches in length - into his head one by one. The nails were not visible when doctors first examined the man in the emergency room of an unidentified Oregon hospital a day later. Doctors were surprised when X-rays revealed six nails clustered between his right eye and ear, two below his right ear and four on the left side of his head. The study did not say how long the nails were, and a hospital spokeswoman refused to release that information. A photo published in the study suggests the nails range from 1 1/2 to 2 inches long. No one before is known to have survived after intentionally firing so many foreign objects into the head, according to the report, written by Dr. G. Alexander West, the neurosurgeon who oversaw the treatment of the patient. The man at first told doctors he had had a nail gun accident, but later admitted it was a suicide attempt. The nails came close to major blood vessels and the brain stem but did not pierce them. The patient was in remarkably good condition when he was transferred to Oregon Health & Science University in Portland, where the nails were removed. The patient was later transferred to psychiatric care and stayed under court order for nearly a month before leaving against doctors' orders.