RavEMTGun

Interesting question. I know that when I read the NREMT test questions, I often wonder if they were written by someone who speaks English.

The milk! It came out my nose!

Dupe. This is the tenth post from the top in this subforum!

http://www.emtcity.com/index.php/topic/17245-911-non-emergencies-a-growing-problem-nationwide/

Ems like every other profession "if (insert person, organization etc) uses them then they have to be the best!" Just goes to show money talks and you know what walks...

Apparently not people wearing FDNY boots

And to clear things up even more with so many fly by night ( pun intended ) flight ambulances now many even will fly with an EMT-B and either RN or Paramedic crew. So flight is no longer the land of only the best and most educated. Sorry to burst the egos and bubbles.

I can't believe this. Name some P/B flight services

This does not seem like a fair comparison.

I'm happy to stop and offer some first aid if there is a situation that looks needful and nobody is on scene, but only if it is safe for me. I drove past a wreck the other day that I might have stopped for because I saw no safe way to stop (icy interstate with traffic, car in snowy median on a curve with no inside shoulder = way to dangerous to think about it).

good find

http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_14084125?source=commented-

The 911 call came in as "ankle pain."

So Denver paramedics headed out onto frozen streets and brought Debra Neaves to the hospital.

With that trip, those emergency providers became makeshift patches in the frayed health care safety net, providing services they were never intended to provide — at enormous cost to health systems, taxpayers and everybody with health insurance.

Thanks for the lead. I found this on a quick search -

http://www.worldwidelearn.com/campus...302107/162008/

I already have the medic credentials, FF 1 and 2, as well as life experiences. It seems too easy, though. I'm wondering if schools like this are legit or are just joke degrees, only looking for your money, with no transfer anywhere or acknowledged by employers, which is the whole point of the thing anyway.

Wherever you got your tech cert may be affiliated with a shcool, allowing you to transfer your paramedic time so that you just need A&P I&II, Bio, and geneds like english, speech, etc.

YOu ought to be able to do everything online except for your Bio and A&P labs (or speech if thats required)

Congratulations on your A. Good work!

Hey Rav, Im curious to know what article it is that you are referring to by bledsoe, I had a conversation with him not a week ago over much of this same topic and the consensus I got was very different. Can you post me a link to that article or maybe some more information as to where I can find it, thanks in advance

Unless he has changed his opinion recently...

I know nothing of their EMS system, just that if I was going to travel to Mexico (and I have several times), Mexico City would be very low on the list of places to visit.

History has shown that the vast majority of individuals have a poor financial eduaction, as evidenced by overextended credit, real estate speculation, underfunding 401k's etc. etc. Our example shows how one of a lesser salary can come out ahead of one that is more gainfully employed.

...

Most college students don't work FT. I have never met any that contribute to an IRA while completing a degree.

If you want to give the best case tech school scenario, then let me give the best case AAS scenario which is WAY BETTER:

Working AAS Paramedic Plan! It is easy to do!

1. Get EMT-B (possibly take Bio I at the same time)

2. Get full time EMT job and work it for 1 year to get the required 1 year experience to go to P school. While working full time, go to school part time taking Bio I, A&P I, A&P II, IV, and EKG (that's 17 credits total over 3 semesters, not hard!) all while receiving financial assistance. If you are motivated, you could do all your general ed requirements too, eliminating step 4.

3. Enroll in one of several AAS EMT-P programs that are scheduled to work around your full time modified kelly shift! You work full time EMT-B while earning EMT-P and putting money into retirement if your job allows and you know what to do.

4. Work full time as an EMT-P while over the next 1-2 semesters, you take the remaining 9-15 credits required for the AAS degree.

Several of my friends have gone this route. It is entirely doable.

Your whole argument is couched on the idea that the tech school guy is going to have your university account dropout level of finance knowledge to put him ahead of the degreed medic who doesn't know the finance tricks. This is a strawman's argument. Maybe our AAS paramedic will take finance classes as electives. I know the tech school dude won't take any electives. There are none.

The Working-AAS option is way cheaper than your tech school option, allows fulltime employment the entire time, and is just as fast except that you probably made more money and now you have a better education and an AAS to advance in the future! The tech school guy will not have the future option to quickly get an associates degree. His tech school credits won't count. He'll need 2 years of school.

That pretty much ends your argument for tech school being the most lucrative option. It might be the easy route, or the only route for those who cannot cut the higher standard, but it is NOT the most lucrative route out there.

Should this be good enough for patients? Is patient care all about your leisure?

He's being "pragmatic" by which I mean "selfish." It is NOT "enlightened self interest," just self interest. You could call it unprofessional...

Your posts lately have only been about what the job can do for your bank account and not what you can do for the patient. Even when you were talking about getting a degree as an RN or RRT in other threads, you mentioned very little about the job or the patient care aspect. Neither you or Diazepam618 are a credit to Fire Based EMS when you fail to realize there is a patient involved.

Young, she kinda nailed you down there. That is exactly what your posts have read like.

I don't get it what is the rest of the country doing that is so amazing. Yeah come on patient care is noble and all, but people really do this for the money

You have no soul and no professionalism. You don't care about medicine. Why are you here?

46Young you are making a LOT of assumptions, most of them questionable.

1. The assumptions of poor spending habits by the college grad but good investing discipline by the non-college person.

2. Assuming that the college student does not work and earn money while in college.

3. Assumption that the non-college student has the ability to pay that extra 10K up front for the tech course.

4. Assumption that the student has ability to invest this mythical $10K in order to make the earnings difference (or that they can get that fantabulous 10% rate).

5. You are ignoring the chance college students have to get a student loan or grant which will let the acquire education without delay. Tech students do not have this opportunity. Therefor, you fail to account for missed earnings for the non-college person who is forced to spend time in a lesser paying job saving money to be spent on tech school.

6. You are also mischaracterizing the length of an AAS Paramedicine versus a tech school options. Tech school is generally going to be 6-12 months (we aren't counting medic mills). You are cheating yourself if you don't do college level A&P and many tech schools require it anyways. AAS Paramedic Programs are generally the same length as the trade school for the paramedic portion. One will find that there is really only about 1 extra semester of courses required to earn an AAS in paramedicine, and those courses could actually be done by the student when they are doing A&P.

7. You are also making a fatal assumption: that the education requirements for paramedicine will remain static. AAS will hopefully become the minimum.

CONCLUSION: Really, you are making a lot of weak arguments and strawman arguments for tech school being more lucrative. Your argument only works for a small subset of people with very limited aspirations under certain conditional futures. It's a bad bet for the individual and it's a bad bet for EMS. Why push that agenda at all?

If you want to make some $$$$, get your RN, if you want to be a hero get into medic school as fast as you can so the FD can pick you, but if you want to make peanuts be a private medic.

Your troglodyte attitude is irritating.

Don't be an RN for the money. You'd better be smart enough and want to do the job. BTW, it's REALLY hard to find a job as a new graduate these days in many areas (having a BSN helps and may eventually become the minimum). There just aren't new grad positions available due the bad economy + schools being flooded by people who think that RN=easy$.

Your "be a hero, be a medic ASAP" comment reeks of a lack of professionalism. You honestly seem much more interested in fire than medicine. So why are you on this forum anyways?

Its the biggest scam I ever saw. Its setup to make you fail it the first time so you can go take it again. I know people have tooken it 4-5 times. I will be damn If I pay $70 6 times to pass a test that to say you can keep a patient breathing while on the way to the ER. That is what a class for. 70 dollars a pop *EMT-B TEST* is a joke. What ever happend to taking a state class then a test? Oh btw paying to get your CPR card and such. SCAM another money trick. It would be the best go get rid of the NR. Every state has different type of "standards" then others. So Please, quit sucking. BTW this will be my 2nd time taking the NR. If I don't pass it this time. i am getting a new job. I am nothing to have sucker and keep paying. I just take what I learned in class and go with it.

NR test is easy. It is not a scam. It is not set up to make you fail the first time. I passed the first time. If someone has to take such an easy test 4-5 times just to get an 70%, maybe EMS isn't for them.

Further, you don't seem to be a big fan of standards and verification. Without NR, you cannot think of moving between states. You'd have to take paramedic or emt school all over again. Other medical professions have national standards. A NCLEX licensed nurse with a degree from a properly accredited institution can move from state to state without having to take nursing school over again.

Lacking national standards makes us look like even more of a joke to insurance which keeps reimbursement low and our pay low.

The NR isn't perfect. It's standards should be increased. Moving the opposite direction and eliminating it will just be another step in relegating EMS to the backwaters. If you want an example of how NREMT fails us, IAFF likes NREMT because it let's them send their FF's to medic mills in other states. Of course, if NR was gone, there'd just be more medic mills locally.

In my state, you can recert as an EMT with only 36 CE hours and Paramedic with only 50. NR requires 72 out of everyone.

Further, the standard for classes to meet national (and thus NREMT) standards are different than the states. In my state, you could teach a state EMT class with less than 100 contact hours. Nationally, the new standard will be nearly 200 hours with more subject matter required to be covered.

There are standards, albeit low. The national standards are almost universally higher than state standards.

What standart?, there is no standard in ems, and most of the guys I know who let their NB laps are from the private realm.

1. You can't keep your story straight. That's not what you just said.

2. The B key is nowhere near the R key

3. There are standards in EMS. Maybe you should learn about them.

You can only hope that they discontinue the NR. it's just a big scam anyways everyone i know doesn't even keep the NR once they get fire gigs.

It's not just a big scam. We make our people keep NR because NR has a higher CE standard than the state.

I guess I'm not surprised when you say that the fire guys are the ones dumping NR.

You're looking at it backwards. The I/99 isn't the 'new paramedic level,' however EMTs who currently are I/99s are going to be transitioned to being paramedics, and thus they (the providers themselves, not the level) will be 'new paramedics.'

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh now I understand his statement

I noticed in that NREMT newsletter, that there will be 4 'uniform titles' for EMS. The biggest 'problem' I see is this:

The 'new Paramedics' (Read EMT-I/99) will be labeled as 'not true Paramedics by the "old school 'REAL' Paramedics"...

I'm sure that there will also be quite a bit of gnashing of teeth and rending of garments because alot of the NREMT states will lose a boatload of 'titles' that aren't recognized by the National Registry.

I can only hope that this is the first 'small step' in a successive chain of bigger and bigger steps to help EMS become a truly recognized 'Health Care Profession'!

How is the "new" Paramedic an I-99????????????????????

Also, states can ignore the NREMT and do what they want at the state level.

Now that looks like an exceptional piece of kit! I can't help drooling when thinking about how incredible something like that would be for SAR evacs in particular.

Wondrous. Infinitely more comfortable for the patient during long and bumpy lower/carry/wheelout. Also, it insulates!!! Any SAR team that isn't using these is living in the dark ages.

I think I'm going to have to call "useless without pictures".

Full body vaccuum splint is the bees knees.

Dear Trauma:

sample size of 29 - bah humbug.. not enough to draw any conclusions. The study of people in car crashes would be interesting tho.. could contact hundreds of thousands of them and ask for DNA.

worth repeating