unknown

Incog, you were doing so well in saying that it's nice to discuss in a civilized forum until you egged Inf on. Now Inf will have to defend themselves or bow down to being a bigger person and end the bickering. Who knows which way they will go but you should have stopped while you were ahead.

I have found on these forums that if someone makes you mad you can do one of a couple of things.

Continue to fight with them - does no-one any good

Ignore them even - that's the best plan

ignore them until they say something else and then start the fight again - not smart either.

You might want to practice what cha preach.

Now Ruff I am not egging Inf on in any manner. I am making a stated fact that Inf has something to learn from EVERYONES postings.

sorry for posting that long post yesterday. It was not intended to insult anyone's intelligence and if you felt that your intelligence was insulted then I'm sorry but there's nothing I can do about that now.

Do NOT applogize for posting that and YOU didn't do any wrong in doing so. In comparison to what VS posted, what you had to say was supremely intellegent and very well explained. If those still choose to disregard us who believe, then let them. BUT NEVER applogize for taking a stand for your beliefe in Faith. When it is all said and done those of us who have faith will have strength to carry on and something to help us look forward to the next day.

Edit-- out of respect for Wendy

I agree with both spenac and incognitogirl. I do not mean to offend, HOWEVER, I believe there are very important points that were not mentioned.

Scrappy, I will always listen to what you have to say. You have set me on the right path on more than one occation in my life. Thanks for pointing that out to me, and for the record- How could I get offend at what you have to say? I know you and I know you mean the best with all my best intentions at heart, allways! Thanks for the shoulder to lean on and the knowledge shared.

Your one of the best friends a girl could ever ask for.

I tend to agree with MSDelta. This has very little to do with the care provided by the parents.

I have to agree with 'Zilla.

And I just want to point out to all of you- I am really glad that this topic can be discussed in a proper manner- every one agreeing to disagree if they don't agree with the point to begin with. Thanks for keeping it mature and clean.

EDIT----- out of respect for RUFFEMS

One thing I have to say is that I think there's a little bit of racism, or at least class...err...ism... going on with this whole thing. Where's my soapbox? There it is, hang on, here we go...

WHY IS IT ONLY NEWS WHEN IT HAPPENS IN MIDDLE CLASS COLORADO??? If this had been had been a father of a child in some housing project somewhere, everyone would be on the cop's side, and you'd all be talking about what a horrible parent they were for interfering, and saying how he should be in jail. I assure you, things like this happen every single day, just usually to people who are poor and have different skin colors, and then, nobody cares! Hey, newsflash everyone, were in America, all men created equal, we should be getting equal treatment, but think about it, Columbine, Jon Benet Ramsey, Lacey Peterson, who ever that girl was who went missing in Aruba, none of these cases were anything that hadn't happened before, however, it just seems to be a little more newsworthy when the victims are middle class and white. As my good friend Marshall Bruce Mathers III once said "[L]ook where it's at/

Middle America, now it's a tragedy/Now it's so sad to see, an upper class city/

havin this happenin..."

I now return you to your regularly scheduled EMTCity.

STOP THE PRESS!!! THIS IS A NEWS WORTHY EVENT!!!!!

INCOGNITO GIRL AGREES WITH Asysin2leads

Very Well Put!

Ruff

I hate, HATE the news media with a passion, I do not read, watch or listen to the news. The local news I only watch for the weather.

You took the words out of my mouth....

Spenac

I get up each morning drink coffee and watch news. Sadly instead of anything worth while this morning I learn that OJ is on his way back to court, who cares about that.

Yup....exactly!

stricture

yaws

Dude stop the personal attacks. If you disagree fine, state your "facts" but don't attack. Comments like yours above do not build any credibility to the discussion.

And again- Spenac, VERY well put.

incognito, go back to your trailer and stop spewing nonsense over the airways.

you as a parent give up a lot of rights once you decide to conceive a child. abortion is illegal during 3rd trimester, beating your kid is illegal, and condoms are free. the child doesn't have the mental aptitude to determine whether he needs medical attention and its parents with an attitude like yours that the laws were created against.

Oh how RICH!! I can see by your age you havn't found your way yet- so allow me to help you.

LIKE HELL DO I EVER GIVE UP MY RIGHTS! Unless I am unfit to parent I do not give up a right one just because of conception of a child. What kind of crack are you on any how?

And to prove me unfit? I would DIE first before my children weren't cared for properly. Just because I don't alow left winged extremest to tell me what I must and can't do with my kids doesn't make me unfit. It makes me a better parent for standing my ground for MY right to RAISE MY KIDS AS I FEEL IS PROPER FOR THEM.

I am so sorry if this little ole female seems too old fashioned and red neck for your likeing-- oh and by the way- my trailer that I am going back too is a 3500 square foot ranch style home with a full basement 3 full baths and it sits on 2 full acres 3 miles out of town in a rural country setting in the Heart of the Ozarks. Nice fresh clean air for my kids to breath and no smog to cloud my mind or my dicision making!!!

epilepsy

nare

laceration

cardiac

crainium

Speaking of which, anyone remember this international case, of Cuban raft surviver Elian Gonzales, no matter which side of the issue you might have been?

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/cubanboy/elian1.html

Oh lord how could we forget?!!

(Richard you @#!t stirrer... you is just wanting to open another can of worms......)

As Always,

Be Safe

WANTYNU

Please Allow me-- SEMPER SALUS! (always safe)

Actually, the thing that makes the most men sick is the smell of the clutch burning. Oh, sorry, I forgot, the women wouldn't know what that's like. :twisted:

Oh we wouldn't would we? Your right. Cause we don't burn clutches in our rigs-- You think we don't know what a stick shift/ manuel transmission is or how to drive one? Suppose that black Chevy Z71 off road with the 5 spead that I owned, it just sat in my driveway and I stared at it... cause I couldnt make it go. Yeah-- I guess those speeding tickets I got where fabricated too.........Dang I do miss that truck!

Anyone care to comment further, that there are 4 types of EMS personnel:

Those who are able to bottle it up and wait till alone to cry.

Those who might be called "emotional" and start crying at the earliest opportunity.

Those who end up with a PTSD.

The true stone hearts who never cry.

Comments? Other categories?

VERY TRUE

I would fall into the bottle it up until I am alone- I usally find a way to vent wether it be on line IM, CHAT or a phone call to a friend, but never on the job or in public.

Thank you for this information, I have a very close friend 25 years of age that I have worried about. She is insulin dependent and has always struggled with her weight and here of late she has been rail thin. I have worried about her but she waves it off and eats like a horse............. makes me wonder whats really going on!!

Besides the reasons you mentioned another reason not to sign since he did not call EMS is so he is not responsible to pay. Many services charge you even if they do not transport. Why should this family have to pay for an idiots mistake. I hope they end up owning the first responder, his service, cps, the police, the city, etc.

I am all for protecting children but responsible parents should not be harassed and children should not have unwanted and unneeded care forced on them.

I COULD NOT AGREE MORE.

I COULDN'T SAY IT BETTER MY SELF IF I HAD TO.

what a great and stimulating topic. Just when I think I know what I think, you guys get me going. Who was it who said that a conclusion is something you come to when you are tired of thinking?

I don't believe that God gives simplistic answers to complex issues. This whole issue of what the bible really means is a valid one. Whether it's upbringing, or personal inclination, life experiences, etc. something brings us to our own understanding of the universe and our place in it. Our world view, as well as our practice of the divine is one of the things that makes us uniquely human. We all have some kind of "religion", some encoded in doctrine and organized churches, others not. We are meant to struggle with these issues. We are designed to balance the needs of the child with the needs of the community. I value the strength of commitment that JWs generally display, but I disagree with what I believe is faulty scholarship and indoctrinational isolation. That not withstanding, my place of regular worship has demonstrated errors in doctrine that will be extremely challenging to address. The key is that these doctrinal errors be corrected. The study of the bible without an understanding of languages, cultures, historical development, etc. along with the guidance of the Holy Spirit will produce erroneous conclusions.

The bottom line for me is the preservation of life and you bet, I will do everything in my power to convince the parents of a child to allow standard of care - BUT I am not God and if I fail, then it was not my call. Thanks for the great discussion

I APPLAUD YOU MADAME FOR A VERY ELEGANT RESPONSE

In Arkansas- they pray like all heck we have a Helicopter available, BLS isn't any good to that cardiac patient that is about to start circeling the drain........

Not too far from Berryville, been there. My family is originally from the Jasper area. I forgot the county. I little farther south I know. LOVE Hot Springs.

Yeah Newton county-- a whole new world. I once took a road trip from Paris back to West Plains via Hwy 7 up through the center of Newton county--- can we say Motion sickness!!! Whew that was ruff.............

Any how Hot Springs Garland County South West of Little Rock NO WHERE near Newton county.......

BRAVO SPENAC!

Stand your ground. We in America are being de-sensitized and brain washed by the system. Leave us alone and allow us to raise our children. If the father and mother did (as the articles stated) the necessary means to evaluate the son and if then they felt he was fine- then leave him be. Let him go. Don’t try to twist arms and bully a family. As for the father refusing to sign the release form- Kudos to him. He didn’t call the EMS’ I wouldn’t sign it either! As a mother of 3 children, whom I have raised on my own (their father drove a truck the entire 12 years we where married) I will be the first to tell you if it was me in this situation, there would be HECK to pay for any one interfering. My children are MY blessing and they are intrusted to me to raise. So allow me to do it. They are MY flesh and blood, I will care for them. NO one will interfere or try to tell me what I can or can not do. This family in the article should be allowed the same stance. It was wrong for the Paramedics, Law Enforcment and Family Services to interfere.

I have been on the other hand of the Law where my children are concerned, I know how this father feels. I have a child with special needs. She has a behavioral disorder. Diagnosed by medical professionals at the age of 3, she has received treatment and counseling. I, as a parent, have taken classes to learn how to care for her; and received counseling of my own.

To the out side world, to the G.P. MY life and that of my childs is none of your business and when a nosey neighbor feels she should call family services because she doesn’t agree with my way of handling my child; IN her face when the Sheriffs department visited her and outlined the fact that I could press charges for harassment should she call on me again. (after family services and law enforcment did a through investigation it was clear for the 6 time nothing was amis at my house)

We have laws that protect our privacy and our rights as parents and the public should honor that. In the end we as parents will win if we stand our ground but all that is going to happen is much like these articles. It gets ugly, messy, names get drug through the mud and the press goes crazy. People debate, throw their weight around and think they know what is best. In the end, bottom line, WHO is the parent and was that childs welfare at risk? OR did we waste valuable TAX DOLLARS—YES YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY, on government resources to pacify a nosey busy body neighbor who thinks they know what is best for a child who is not there own.

What happened to this family is a shame. A pure shame and is the result of a bully system.

As a child who lost her mother to domestic violence and was raised at the hands of a mentally abusive and emotionally neglecting step mother; I will stand strong and say the system is OVER BOARD to the wrong direction tying to make up for years of ignorance and oversight. It seems to me the children that truly need help are not getting it and the ones that are not in harm are the ones getting pursued.

I have my own opinions and views on that but lets save it for another day….my rant is long enough aleady!

So if I'm a doctor and believe that I would be harming my patients by giving them blood transfusions (damning them to hell), I should be able to refuse to administer blood products to dying patients because of my own beliefs? Who's to say my beliefs are wrong? That's a huge taboo. You can't question other people's beliefs. Why? Because you can't.

People are free to make all the stupid decisions they want about their own life, but when their beliefs start infringing on others' lives by withholding potentially life-saving procedures from someone else (like in the OP's case), that is negligent homicide. And really, I'd even go as far as to say that attempting to teach an impressionable child beliefs that may later cause their death is shameful abuse of power. There would be a lot less problems these days if kids weren't presented beliefs as fact at an early age and brought up to just accept it.

I don't know where your going with this buddy-- but it doesn't have a thing to do with the statement I made.

AND If you think it did then you are way off course.

Bottom line, beliefs first or point blank YOU don't HAVE ANY FAITH AT ALL---so its a farce is what I am saying- he really doesn't believe in the JW faith is what I am saying. IF they are a doctor and IF they don't follow the faith first- then they really don't believe-- it's all or none - no grey area. You either believe or you don't. I can't make it any plainer......

mandible

OMG Richard I REMEMBER that episode! One of my favourites for sure! Very 'white rabbit'.

As for the cake...well...if they had the money to do it...never mind...it's still wrong on so many levels...or should that be tiers? ACK!

Brat :angel8:

Tiers?!!! =D> =D>