BLS pushing ALS drugs in a "pinch"

[Dustdevil]

The Basic was warned that was a no-no but that her Ops Manager understood she felt she was doing what she was being told to do.

Say no more.

I understand it perfectly now. :roll:

[BushyFromOz]

Say no more.

I understand it perfectly now. :roll:

Wait wait!

IS SHE HOT?

[FFEMT4100]

Adapt,improvise and overcome.Let's face it , this happens all the time and everyone knows it.Bid deal, who cares and yes it is what was best for the pt.With that said i have seen alot, right or wrong the pt. is my priority!!!!

[BushyFromOz]

Adapt,improvise and overcome.Let's face it , this happens all the time and everyone knows it.Bid deal, who cares and yes it is what was best for the pt.With that said i have seen alot, right or wrong the pt. is my priority!!!!

Yes yes, lets do that, lets break the law then falsify the run sheet to cover it up, how altruistic of you! Lets also do whats best for the pt, lets get the medic to shuffle their butt down the bench seat and push the med themself like they are supposed to do :?

Bah...rules and laws exist for a purpose people, not to be twisted and re-interpreted and adhered to only when it suits us, geez....simple concept, and anyone who makes excuses not to follow them and even condone behaviour to the contrary should not be in medicine :x

[FFEMT4100]

I can tell bushy has not ben around long!

[Just Plain Ruff]

FFEMT I don't know about Bushy's experience but he's spot on, it shouldn't happen and it's not right. End of story.

3rd post and your already making waves. Get ready for a bumpy ride.

[Just Plain Ruff]

FFEMT you are quoted here

FFEMT4100 wrote:

Adapt,improvise and overcome.Let's face it , this happens all the time and everyone knows it.Bid deal, who cares and yes it is what was best for the pt.With that said i have seen alot, right or wrong the pt. is my priority!!!!

So you are saying that whatever is in the best interest of your patient you are gonna do it no matter what the cost?

I'm curious as to why you say that? Elaborate please.

I do agree, the patient is your priority but some times you can take things a little too far when it comes to the best interest of the patient.

I have another train of thought starting in my head but I'll let you elaborate on the Right or wrong the patient is your priority statement before I get into what I am thinking or better yet I'll probably post it in a different thread.

[FFEMT4100]

right or wrong??? there are too many varibles, the thred was refering to a pinch situation so u have to do something for the patient.I don't agree with everything that happened but in a pinch something has to be done,and if u the EMT and the medic are the only ones on the sceen trained in any sort of intervention by all means don't exceed your scope of practice no matter what the patient situation,lets get real we have a job to do. So right or wrong in a pinch u may have to bend alittle!

later,

someone whos ben there point of veiw.

[FMBILL]

I've read through this whole thread and finally decided to voice my opinion for the first time ever wihtin the forums on this. With that being said, here it goes...

First, everyone is human. I do not know of a single person that has not had gotten tunnel vision or become so focused on one thing that other things are overlooked. With that, I feel that the EMT-B acted with the patient's best interest in mind when she got the attention of the medic. Once the medic agreed, then the EMT-B should have taken over with controlling the bleeding, handling traction, etc., whatever WAS in the scope of practice and let the medic do the pushing. I firmly believe that you do the best you can within your scope.

Second, to lie on a trip sheet about what occurred is just wrong. Simple as that. It would also damage the 'trust' I would have in that medic. Why? Lying is wrong regardless of the reason. In this case, it would make me question this medic's abilities and judgement. If someone lies once and is caught in it, I believe, and this is only my opinion mind you, that they will do it again or have done it in the past.

Third, while I am still relatively 'new' to the actual ranks of EMS, I've been around it almost my entire life. I've seen numerous MVA's and assisted with medical calls as a FF that I decided that becoming an EMT-B would benefit others. I am by no means saying I know everything, nor do I wish to be labelled as a 'know-it-all', but isn't the reason all of us are in this profession is to try to make a difference in the lives of our fellow men/women around us? Yes, some may get the "God complex", it happens in a lot of different fields. And yes, I will include myself in that category. I began thinking along those lines in the fire service until a friend pulled me to the side and actually talked to me. Ever since then, I strive to put the patient or whoever I may be helping at the time, first and not my ego.

Having said all that, I think the bottom line is this, what was done was wrong. Period. As for some of the other replies to this thread; yes, this is a dead horse (more like the fossilized remains being bludgeoned even more); I do not know of other states or localities except for my area in which EMT-B's are not allowed to start IV's or push meds; for bashing others, I'll just simply quote a line "Can't we simply all just get along?"; and finally, I would like to think that regardless of age, training, experience,etc., we all are here to help others.

Bill

[BushyFromOz]

I can tell bushy has not ben around long!

And this has what to do with medico-legal and ethics issues?