Ontario equivilency process

[xlq771]

Recently, the MOH changed its equivalency process to allow doctors and RN's to challenge the AEMCA exam. Does anyone know if any have done so?

How do Ontario paramedics feel about the province allowing MD's and RN's on Ontario 911 ambulances?

[Lithium]

First of all, where is the proof that the MoH has allowed these changes? I'd be interested on reading more about it and why they decided to do that.

Secondly, people will whine and complain, but when it comes down to it, a health care professional is a healthcare professional. If a doctor REALLY wants to give up his doctor job, then so be it, although I think they'd have a hard time adjusting with such a culture shock. Same thing goes for RNs.

My first problem would be is that these people have not undergone the training process paramedics have. I'm sure when it comes to the theory portions, both physicians and RNs would have no problems, but it's the practicals that would scare me.

I can't tell you have many times I've been speaking to RNs at hospitals, and they all say the same thing ... "once the patient is in the back of the ambulance id have no problem dealing with him/her, but its getting to the back of the ambulance that scares me."

Let me tell you, it really does take some skill and finesse when you're trying to extricate a restrained driver from their overturned vehicle in the middle of the night while its pouring down rain. This is the biggest difference I could see. Don't get me started on scope of practice, because well honestly, hands down, we have it better then the RNs around here ...

peace

[vs-eh?]

I hadn't heard of this.

I don't know why a MD or RN would challenge the AEMCA other than for shits and giggles. There is a shortage of both across the province anyway. For a doctor this is basically a moot point, more money, more everything. Unless of course they are allowing out of country MD's to challenge who are having difficulty with Ontario equivalency. Apparently it's very difficult. That would be the only reason I would see a MD doing it for.

RN may be slightly different. All RN's have a 4 year university degree, and have a more in-depth and comprehensive education. That being said, there would obviously be a slightly different concentration in education between a 2 year PCP college diploma and a 4 year university degree'd RN. Pay is basically the same for an RN and a PCP...

For those that don't know the AEMCA (Advanced Emergency Medical Care Attendant...they really should change that) is a title given to those who have passed the provincial AEMCA exam. Normally, you can only write this exam following successful completion of a 2 year college PCP program (there are some 1 year programs). I think you are given 2 (maybe 3) attempts at passing (70+%) this 4 hour (or was it 6?) exam. You must have this certification in order to practice paramedicine at any level in Ontario. Following passing the AEMCA you can apply to a service. You then must pass, all the services requirements in addition to passing their basehospital physicians certification in order to become a practicing PCP. But that is the thing...Assuming these MD's/RN's challenge the AEMCA and pass all the other components it would simply allow them to practice as a PCP. They would still have to do the another year for ACP and another year after that for CCP.

I have no real issue with this. My impression is this would be a very rare event.

[xlq771]

Here is the information website (on the MOH equivalency FAQ page)

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/public...equiv_qa.html#5

RN's with 450 hours 911 ambulance experience can challenge, and RN's with ER and ICU experience can use that experience for up to 330 hours of the 450 hours required.

Physicians trained outside of Canada are specifically mentioned. I emailed the MOH equivalency liaison myself and asked if Ontario doctors can do the same. I was informed that they can, under guidelines for equivalency established by the Ontario College of Physicians and Surgeons. I was also told to contact them for those guidelines.

PCP and ACP from a province that signed the Agreement on Internal Trade complete a AIT written exam and 4 practical scenarios. If successful, they automatically receive the AEMCA certificate; they do not have to take the AEMCA exam.

I assume it was done because of a shortage of paramedics(7000 paramedics for a population of 12 million, compared to 80000 nurses in the province).

The MOH equivalency liaison can provide further details.

Email - mohequivalency@sdsx.moh.gov.on.ca

Phone- (416) 326-1561

[Dustdevil]

Physicians trained outside of Canada are specifically mentioned.

That's interesting, but not totally surprising.

I suppose all those Asian physicians who come to Canada and can't get licensed would like a chance to do something with their training instead of driving cabs and running motels. :?

[vs-eh?]

Registered Nurses in Ontario with at least 450 hours of land ambulance pre-hospital patient care experience are considered equivalent for the equivalency process. Registered Nurses with extensive experience in critical care areas (emergency, ICU) may receive up to 330 hours of credit towards the 450 hours of land ambulance pre-hospital experience.

Hmmmm...

I don't know how easy it would be for a RN to simply jump on an ambulance and precept in the same scope as a PCP would. College's have arrangements with services and base hospitals with regard to their students. It wouldn't simply be a "Yes, I'd like to precept". There would be service issues, basehospital issues, insurance issues, etc... In my mind this would not be an easy process...

And what does "extensive experience" mean for an emerg or ICU nurse? So you've worked 330 hours in the emerg or ICU, do you automatically get 330 hours credit? Two or three months working in those areas (which would be about 330 hours) does not equate to "extensive experience". Is it weighted? Like 1 month = 50 equivelent hours? I don't get it, maybe it's just worded poorly.

As Lithium said, theory wise RN's would have little difficulty, but practical application and work environment is a major change.

Overall however, I don't have a major issue. Again, this would be pretty rare...

[vs-eh?]

I suppose all those Asian physicians who come to Canada and can't get licensed would like a chance to do something with their training instead of driving cabs and running motels. :?

A few days ago, Bob Rae (former Ontario premier) announced his running for leader of the Liberal party. A blurb that was playing on the radio from his speech went something like this (paraphrase)

"I was in a cab the other day. The guy driving the cab was a Neurosurgeon from (Pakistan I think). This guy should be practicing medicine, not driving a cab"

It is actually fairly common for these MD's from other country's to be doing jobs like this here. Equivalency is apparently a biatch here...

That being said, I'm sure Mr. Rae would not want his wife having brain surgery done by a doctor who could not pass Ontario medical boards and simply got in because he was a doctor in another country...

[Acosell]

Bob Rae is a boob.

The 2nd A in AEMCA is Assistant, not Attendant

[vs-eh?]

The 2nd A in AEMCA is Assistant, not Attendant

Apparently the MOHLTC isn't entirely sure either...

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/public...equiv_qa.html#5

Assistant in the first one, attendant in the second...But ya it says assistant everywhere else. I could have sworn it was attendant. Does it say assistant on the AEMCA? I don't know where mine is...

I don't like what it stands for either way, but attendant at least makes a little more sense. Who am I assisting? My partner? The doctor in the grand scheme?

TELL ME MOHLTC WHO AM I ASSISTING!!??

[Acosell]

On the certificate it says Assistant, as well as in the BLS Patient Care Standards appendix on abbreviations. Maybe it's because we assist our patients :roll:

I think we should replace the EMCA with BAAD or "Bad Ass Ambulance Driver"

oh yeah.