Eydawn Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I'm keeping this as anonymous as possible, please respect this person's privacy and don't go googling phrases... they're probably innocent enough that they've got their FB wide open for the world to see. I have a classmate here in nursing school, who is younger, homeschooled, and as evidenced by this picture, very religious. We were studying schizophrenia and dissociative identity disorder in class today. As I can't get an image to upload, this was their response that they posted on Facebook (true to word, word for word): Anonymous Classmate: "Thank you Jesus that you CAN cure ANY disease!! With You, no disease is incurable, not even Dissociative Identity Disorder! Our God IS greater! (and I can hardly wait to see You at work in the mental health business...)" Friend's Response (not me): "ohh do tell! That's exciting stuff!" Anonymous Classmate (further explanation): "I am taking "Psychiatric Mental Health Nursing" and we were learning about Dissociative Identity Disorder (formerly known as multiple personality disorder) and my instructor said that there is no cure, and really no kind of therapy...but even if the scientists haven't figured it out, I know that God can cure anything!" As anyone who's studied psych knows, it can be VERY dangerous to bring up religion with individuals who are psychologically unstable, as they can pattern on the religious theme and become hyperreligious on top of other issues... using the religion as another escape, as it were (as opposed to healthy use of spirituality in coping, which is something we've covered a lot.) Should I say something to them? Or let the instructors know that this is their response? I'm really really worried they're going to slip up and do something REALLY DUMB during clinicals. I already fear for his/her ability to get a job and keep one without totally blowing it... I know this person has been sustained by their uber-faith through some of the challenges of nursing school. I don't have a problem with that! They were raised this way, are confident that God will bring them a spouse, etc. etc... but I think this crosses a line and indicates a lack of professional understanding. Thoughts would be appreciated... sorry I couldn't get the screenshot to load... Wendy CO EMT-B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwiology Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 You bring up a dilemma indeed. This person is perfectly entitled to their religious beliefs, in fact true to form I am reasonably religious but I don't go spouting it left right and centre or shoving it down everybodies gob. I have seen first hand the problems of hyper religion from somebody who was a mental health inpatient none the less so I agree with you there. You should say something; not because religion is the issue but because it shows a greater sort of lack of understanding of professional vs personal boundaries; t's not really appropriate to share personal beliefs with a patient whatever they may be; now thats not saying you can't share an opinion on the football or something you know if you're talking with them about say, football, but there is a line that should be drawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DFIB Posted February 2, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted February 2, 2012 You would be surprised at the amount of people that believe that God is in control of all things in their life.This is a very complicated theology for most Christians and most definitely for non believers to understand. It is rooted in a Biblical teaching that God is all powerful and sovereign in all things. We believe that His perfect will work all things together for the good of those who love Him. Therefore, nothing is impossible for God. I believe this theology. I have seen definite miracles but most often see circumstances develop through the normal administration of science and natural law.. I understand that miracles are extraordinary and have a adequate balance in my beliefs and their expressions. I mention this so that you can understand where your classmate is coming from. I think that she is sure and confident in her religious beliefs but has very little experience with society at large. Many times people like your classmate say things like what you describe to demonstrate their faith, but more often than not it is simply the way they normally talk to their family and circle of friends. They do not realize that people with different socio-religious backgrounds might think their behavior is odd or weird. I think you can help her by talking to her from a clinical perspective and say that although we all believe different things we have to respect the patients beliefs as well as avoid the dangers of inducing the patient into unhealthy theocratic projections stemed from their psychopathology. It is gonna be up to you to decide if you want to help her understand limits and boundaries. I would explain the situation to her because of the commonality of beliefs and because I bet she is a really good and caring person that can help many as a provider. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwiology Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 That's rather profound Mr DFIB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
systemet Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 As anyone who's studied psych knows, it can be VERY dangerous to bring up religion with individuals who are psychologically unstable, as they can pattern on the religious theme and become hyperreligious on top of other issues... using the religion as another escape, as it were (as opposed to healthy use of spirituality in coping, which is something we've covered a lot.) Really? I don't have any psych, but are you sure it's "very dangerous"? To me, it just sounds inappropriate. A health provider shouldn't be pushing their religious beliefs on someone else. People that aren't qualified to counsell patients, probably shouldn't be doing that either. Should I say something to them? Or let the instructors know that this is their response? I'm really really worried they're going to slip up and do something REALLY DUMB during clinicals. I already fear for his/her ability to get a job and keep one without totally blowing it... What are you concerned their going to do that's "REALLY DUMB"? If you're concerned they're going to harm a patient somehow, then obviously that needs to be addressed, but I don't understand why you would feel that way? Their personal beliefs sound like their business, until they start behaving in an unprofessional manner. If they're a friend, by all means talk to them, but if they're a stranger, I don't think I'd bother. Just my opinion, not intending to be rude in any way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFIB Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 That's rather profound Mr DFIB Sometimes we sits and thinks, sometimes we just sits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEorP Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Especially as a student, I do not think that you should be sharing your own personal beliefs on any topic with patients. If your friend understands this, then she can go on thinking whatever she wants as long as she sticks to science when speaking with patients. If she seems to think otherwise, then maybe it would to give her a tactful reminder if you are good friends and think that it will be in her best interests (and the reminder doesn't necessarily need to focus on religious beliefs). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Plain Ruff Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 You should tell the person what you are seeing and let them know that if you are seeing it then others are as well. But it's really the persons business how they profess their faith. Are the students in your class actually counseling patients? IF so then they need to put their beliefs away but if this is strictly from your reading their facebook page then what they say there might just be what they say there and they won't put it in practice. There was a recent court case where a student in a counselling program was expelled from it for her religious beliefs and she sued and won. So the courts ruled that she had the right to her religious beliefs and the school/program illegally forced her out. I would just have a heart to heart discussion with her, womano to womano and let her know what you are seeing. But to base this fear off her facebook page and not talk to her directly is kind of the wrong way to go about it. I know you Wendy, you will do what is right. Maybe the person's calling is to be a christian counselor. But if they are going to be counselling people in a state run or non-religious practice then that could be a problem but that's way down the road right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eydawn Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Here's the problem- this individual is SO naive that we (instructors and fellow classmates) have had to very firmly reinforce what the boundaries are in several classroom discussions. Don't get me wrong- I *love* that their faith is so passionate. I truly hope it serves them well in their future personal and professional life, and I have every respect for their right to believe what they do. I also worry that they have been so sheltered- they are so religious, that I fear that a serious challenge to their world or a grievous situation will shatter their faith. I've seen it happen before with homeschooled, super religious individuals. This person has made statements in the past of looking forward to providing ministry through medical care to BRING OTHERS TO CHRIST. That was an interesting conversation that this is not appropriate for you as a healthcare provider to initiate... and that ground must be tread very carefully even if the patient initiates the conversation. They didn't seem convinced. They're not very good at picking up on cues when they're making a classmate uncomfortable (and we're not just talking me here, I actually get along with this individual fairly well) and I am concerned, with the risk that introducing religious themes can have with delusional patients, that they will futz a boundary simply because they haven't learned to partition well enough and keep their beliefs in their personal life. Yes, there is a risk with introducing religious ideas when a patient is delusional- that's why therapy units don't play religious focused music. You have to remember that inpatient psychiatric care is focused on people who are so dysfunctional that there is no really other safe place for them at the moment, and their thinking is muddled and illogical. The answer of religion is very appealing in some cases, but our instructors have emphasized that delusional patients can take it too far and slip further into a psychosis, just with a different focus. Hence, my perception of the danger at hand. I have also had experience with another individual, whom I used to manage, who DID cross that line with a dementia/parkinson's patient in our long term care facility... they told the patient that if they prayed, their condition would improve. That was a hell of a mess when the patient took it as implied that the condition was their fault because they didn't pray enough and expressed that when their family came to visit later... I'm just seeing some of the same naivete and lack of boundary awareness, and I'm hoping it doesn't turn into the same kind of situation. We are being tasked with spending 1:1 time with an individual during our psych rotations to practice therapeutic communication, so it is entirely possible that she could provide improper counsel. If it stays on Facebook, in the person's personal life, I have no problem with it... but this person has trouble respecting classmates' boundaries (even with people who share her faith). I will probably bring something up in clinical orientations that is general... or phrased as a question to the instructor about how to discuss religion with a patient who brings it up with you... Just wanted input. Thanks for your responses, folks! Wendy CO EMT-B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneEMTP Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Yeah, there are so many ways that intervening in this can go wrong, and very few that they can go right. If this is a friend, then maybe I'd stick my neck out a little bit. But if not, I don't think that I would, as there are a million ways that your efforts could be contstrued badly. I pulled a medic asside when I was on the oil spill in LA to mention that the racial things that he had on his FB page could possibly get him jammed up in the future. Normally I wouldn't try and protect such a idiot, but at the time I'd been told by another that he had two brothers in the Special Forces, one killed in combat, the other MIA. That kind of pushed me to butt in where I maybe didn't belong. He had many pics on his page that I felt were inappropriate. For example one with what appeared to be a black, unhealthy prostitute on her knees giving oral sex to a standing white man who was flipping off the camera and wearing a tshirt with a rebel flag and the phrase, "Happy black history week!" Another of an obviously impoverished black woman pushing a baby in a shopping cart with the caption, something to the effect of, "A responsible mom....conditioning her babe to a small room with bars." He became angry at my suggestion that he would be seen as a racist, as 'they're just jokes." And those of you that see my facebook page may notice that he continues to post on my wall now and then about what an arrogant asshole I am. Also, when I went back, before I realised he was pissed at me, to see if he'd taken them down, I noticed that several of the supervisors and management from the company had 'liked' and/or commented on them favorably... The point being that though I only tried to help secondary to his having two brothers that had served my country with valor (the second brother turned up with half of his face shot off.), and I don't really have any issues with being disliked by redneck bigots, regardless of their company position, it did no good, and ended up creating a mess. Would I do it again? Oh yeah, in a second. But you're smarter than that I think. Pick your battles where they can, and will matter Babe. I have a pretty strong suspicion that this isn't one of those cases. But, as Mike pointed out, you're smart enough to do the right thing, and stubborn as 12 mules with one carrot, so let us know what you decide... :-) Dwayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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