Angry

[EMS49393]

I'm sorry that you are unable to understand a post which includes a qualifier. I will try to dumb it down for you in the future.

That was unnecessary and unwarranted. I don't particularly care about attacks on other threads, but since I started this one, I'd prefer the personal attacks be left elsewhere. Thank you.

[Arctickat]

Where is the attack in that? I see what I stated to be no worse that Herbie's comment. Regardless, I've given all the advice I can to this thread. Nothing left to add. I'll be sure not to defend myself to further attacks to avoid sullying your thread.

[croaker260]

Dude WTF .... how can the fire department be in command of all medical calls if you work for a public utility service model (third service)?

I'd complain annonymously to the fire department medical director or county/state EMS officials

There is a difference between PUM and 3rd service.

A PUM is a private with (heavy) government oversight and subsidy , like Sunstar, or MAST.

A 3rd service is just an government run EMS thats not Fire Service, Law Enforcement , or hospital based.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Anonymous complaints are worthless. As a high level manager I see them often, and I will not give them credence. If the complainant is too much of a coward to take responsibility for his accusations then I will not do anything to followup on the incident. I've even told this to people who have phoned me up to complain. The very first question I ask is their name. If they do not provide it I tell them that they are unlikely to see any satisfaction from their complaint because anyone can make false anonymous accusations without fear of repercussion. If they are willing to give their name so I am able to follow up with them, it's a different story and I take it very seriously.

Either way, I do follow up on all complaints. If anonymous I tell the target of the complaint about it and ask if there is anything to it. Sometimes they admit that something may have happened, other times they deny it. I do not put anonymous complaints on the record. The only time I might ever consider an anonymous complaint to be valid is when I get inundated with them regarding the same incident.

So, in your case, if you're going to make an anonymous complaint, make several. Make them via different media as well, phone call, letters, etc. That might get some attention.

I would take a little more credence in anonymous attacks. Contrary to popular belief, the media uses anonymous complaints or anonymous sources all the time.

If you do not take a anonymous source seriously it will (if it hasn't yet) come back and bite you in the ass. The person who complained can come back and give details of the complaint they made anonymously and if you didn't do anything about it then you are in deep ka ka.

A lot of times they are just smoke blowers but many times they are valid complaints by people who do not want repurcussions to occur to them for making the complaint.

To dismiss them out of hand is at your own peril.

[VentMedic]

I would take a little more credence in anonymous attacks. Contrary to popular belief, the media uses anonymous complaints or anonymous sources all the time.

I don't believe we are trying to out some mafia scandal here but rather address a professional issue which should be done as the P&P book states by the professionals involved and offering professional courtesy to the professional you have the complaint about to respond as a professional. If these are direct patient care issues they should have a legitimate paper trail to show that every effort had been made to establish a professional relationship between the professionals involved. Then if all else fails the media can be contacted. However, if and when they investigate and find no complaints and/or rebuttals or any other paper trail on file, guess which file they are going to put your letter in and how much credibility you will have?

[sirduke]

Complain annonymously to the fire department chief. Tell him that you live on that street and wondered why the fire truck waited -- tell him you took videos of it, and will turn it over to the news. I imagine those employees will be fired. Anyone that with-holds care to a patient in need should have their license taken and should be criminally persectuted. Notify your State EMS Office as well, even though these guys are fire department property, they are EMTs and Medics, and fall under the States jurisdiction. The response time records should prove that they did wait, since they arrived at the same time you did, and you had an extended eta

Unless of course they are black, unless you are also black, or Crotch will advocate you having to pay !

Seriously, it is a concern that should be dealt with. Document every aspect of it, to include times of dispatch, etc. Keep these for your defense should you suffer reprecussions.

Duke

[Just Plain Ruff]

Unless of course they are black, unless you are also black, or Crotch will advocate you having to pay !

Seriously, it is a concern that should be dealt with. Document every aspect of it, to include times of dispatch, etc. Keep these for your defense should you suffer reprecussions.

Duke

Absolutely on the paper trail. If you are going to make a complaint I say do it with your name behind it.

but I think we are talking about a fire crew that got called away from their recliners and didn't want to have to do any work.

Patient care issues absolutely have to have names on them or they lack credence unless you are calling in on the corporate compliance hotlines many hospitals ahve set up.

I do agree that if a name is not on the complaint it is taken less seriously but every complaint has to be investigated no matter how small, you never know, you might find an Al Quaida or mafia component at work. You never know. ha ha

Edited July 20, 2009 by Ruffems

[crotchitymedic1986]

I disagree with adding your name to it, unless you do it with the State and they ensure your anonymity. This person has already been suspended once for similar problems, if he/she adds their name to the complaint it will be Strike 2, as their employer is obviously more worried about keeping their contract than ensuring proper patient care.

AND YOU KNOW I DO HAVE TO ASK: WAS THE PATIENT BLACK ?

And before you jump on the "here he goes again" bandwagon, if you will study your refusals/no transports you will see that blacks have a far higher statistic than whites, considering they are only 1/17th-20th of the population. But I will grant you that most of those are not due to racism, but are more likely due to lower socio economic groups using EMS as their Doctor or atleast triage nurse.

And most professional corporations have an anonymous avenue to complain, in case it is the manager who is doing wrong; most call it corporate compliance. I agree with the posters who are for investigating all complaints. I may not give an anonymous complaint the same importance or speed than I would for someone who calls or shows up and will go on record, but you should investigate all. The quickest way to get a JCAHO, State, or Political Investigation is to ignore a complaint. It is better to say, yes we investigated it, but had no way to follow up since it was anonymous -- there is usually some truth to what they are whining about.

[letmesleep]

It seems that any thread I read that crotchitymedic1986 responds to is nothing more than somebody who is looking for pity for African Americans v. an EMS provider who really has something to add, WHY?

crotchitymedic1986, could the stats your using be due to the fact that EMS is used as a drive-by clinic in the urban setting? Is it possible that those stats are generalized over all of EMS and not broke down to different regions and populations?

Not everything has to be a conspiracy against the "Black Man" or have anything really to do with race at all.

Make the complaint and do whats best for the community your serving.

[EMS49393]

I disagree with adding your name to it, unless you do it with the State and they ensure your anonymity. This person has already been suspended once for similar problems, if he/she adds their name to the complaint it will be Strike 2, as their employer is obviously more worried about keeping their contract than ensuring proper patient care.

AND YOU KNOW I DO HAVE TO ASK: WAS THE PATIENT BLACK ?

And before you jump on the "here he goes again" bandwagon, if you will study your refusals/no transports you will see that blacks have a far higher statistic than whites, considering they are only 1/17th-20th of the population. But I will grant you that most of those are not due to racism, but are more likely due to lower socio economic groups using EMS as their Doctor or atleast triage nurse.

And most professional corporations have an anonymous avenue to complain, in case it is the manager who is doing wrong; most call it corporate compliance. I agree with the posters who are for investigating all complaints. I may not give an anonymous complaint the same importance or speed than I would for someone who calls or shows up and will go on record, but you should investigate all. The quickest way to get a JCAHO, State, or Political Investigation is to ignore a complaint. It is better to say, yes we investigated it, but had no way to follow up since it was anonymous -- there is usually some truth to what they are whining about.

To me, it doesn't matter what race they are or where they live. However, let me set your mind at ease...

It was an established, largely older people, mostly Caucasian area of the city. The patient was herself an elderly Caucasian woman. I guess by delaying care to her they were "putting the old white woman down."

Should this have happened in a largely poor, largely black community, I would have the same gripes. Like wise if it happened where the trailer park that houses the Mexican population lives, or the trailer park that houses the poor white people.

The bottom line is that they delayed timely care because they are selfish. It's a PUM, I'm disposable, and the relationship with the fire department is not. There is no corporate compliance to complain to, but thanks for the thought. These folks rely on us, and their actions were simply inexcusable. There is no perfect job, no perfect community, no perfect relationships. I just needed to blow off some steam and I figured this is a healthier avenue than starting a crack habit.

Thanks everyone for listening and responding.