hammerpcp Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 As an interesting side note, this scenario reminds me of something someone told me once regarding the risk of embolism related to drilling in the mouth by the dentist... Cerebral air embolism if I recall correctly. Otherwise I would have a high index of suspicion regarding anesthetics when responding to calls at a dental office. All death is fundamentally caused by cardiopulmonory arrest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firedoc5 Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 In my EMT-A class there was one student that was, well let's just say he came up with some really "way out there" stories, that when asked, "Why did this certain patient go into full arrest?" His answer, "Because his heart stopped beating." And he was serious! About two years later I wound up working for the same private service he was working at. He hadn't changed a bit. When I was taking the EMT-I class, which he wasn't in because he couldn't pass the entrance exam, was trying to give me advice like tutoring because of his "experience" in the Navy. He was supposedly a Navy Hospital Corpsman in Viet Nam. (like, yea, right). He did finally get into an EMT-I class about two years later. Luckily, before he completed the class the company we worked for asked him to quit, which he did. Sorry, didn't mean to high jack if I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyM83 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 As an interesting side note, this scenario reminds me of something someone told me once regarding the risk of embolism related to drilling in the mouth by the dentist... Cerebral air embolism if I recall correctly. Otherwise I would have a high index of suspicion regarding anesthetics when responding to calls at a dental office. Don't you need to have a really large volume of air go into your bloodstream (not related to elevation incidents) to get an air embolism? I recall the example of having to give half your IV bag's worth of air into a vein to cause an embolism . . . or perhaps that's in veins only and arteries are more sensitive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerpcp Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Offhand I am not sure if any actual research has ever been done regarding the actual amount of air required to cause problems when introduced by different routes (venous, arterial). I do know that every time I hear some one talk about it the quantity gets bigger though. It might be interesting to do some searches on that actually. Regarding the dental drill and risk of air embolism, here are a couple of links after a quick "Googling": http://www.cja-jca.org/cgi/reprint/37/1/112.pdf http://www.anesthesia-analgesia.org/cgi/co...tract/106/1/249 http://www.southernmaxillofacial.com/downl...ill-surgery.pdf http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0MKX/is_/ai_n11841559 From my reading it doesn't seem to be a big risk. Let me know if you find out anything else about this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyM83 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Wikipedia article on IV Therapy states 3-8 ml/kg is needed to stop the heart and under 30mL dissolves harmessly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intravenous_therapy#Embolism But that's all useless without actual references... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Plain Ruff Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Offhand I am not sure if any actual research has ever been done regarding the actual amount of air required to cause problems when introduced by different routes (venous, arterial). I do know that every time I hear some one talk about it the quantity gets bigger though. It might be interesting to do some searches on that actually. Regarding the dental drill and risk of air embolism, here are a couple of links after a quick "Googling": http://www.cja-jca.org/cgi/reprint/37/1/112.pdf http://www.anesthesia-analgesia.org/cgi/co...tract/106/1/249 http://www.southernmaxillofacial.com/downl...ill-surgery.pdf http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0MKX/is_/ai_n11841559 From my reading it doesn't seem to be a big risk. Let me know if you find out anything else about this anyone want to be a test subject to truly find out how much air a wood chuck breaths when a woodchuck well you get the idea. I do wonder how much it would take at times, especially those really annoying and special patients we all have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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