SF Chronicle slams SFFD slow response times

[zzyzx]

This is a several-part article that appeared in April...

Part 1

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...=002&sc=857

Part 2

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...001&sc=1000

Part 3

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...=003&sc=394

Related story

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...=009&sc=298

Related story

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...=019&sc=210

Editorial

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...=007&sc=301

[zzyzx]

And one more....

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...=020&sc=210

[Flasurfbum]

I remember reading/browsing through these when they came out.

IIRC, they were released just after some whiner complained about the SFFD using sir horns and sirens.

Come on, you can't have it both ways... :roll:

[FormerEMSLT297]

SF Dept Of Hospitals of DOH I thought used to have one of the best EMS systems in the country. See what happens when you turn stuff over to the FD ......

[Amhet1]

Are there ANY successful FD run EMS systems?

[a long bitch deleted to remain on topic]

[Amhet1]

I did forget one bitch I REALLY wanted to make......

In one of the articles, they compare SFFD to King County EMS Authority. The implication for the article is that King County EMS is run by an FD which it is NOT. It is a public utility model functioning as a part of a complete EMS System

What too many people forget is the second S..... The ambulance and staff are only a part of a larger system. A system of Hospitals and ERs, dispatchers, controllers, administration, LEOs, FD, social services, public health and other parts.

The biggest problem is that the PUM is the most expensive way to operate an EMSS. The fact is that you get what you pay for. King and Pinellas counties have the best survival rates for VFib. Most big cities take the cheapest option..... FD run EMS. Again, you get what you pay for.

[FormerEMSLT297]

Are there ANY successful FD run EMS systems?

[a long bitch deleted to remain on topic]

Medic 1 Seattle, Washington..... anyone please feel freeto add to the list .

[paramedicmike]

Medic 1 Seattle, Washington..... anyone please feel freeto add to the list .

Perhaps you missed this:

In one of the articles, they compare SFFD to King County EMS Authority. The implication for the article is that King County EMS is run by an FD which it is NOT. It is a public utility model functioning as a part of a complete EMS System

So now we go back to the question. Are there any successful fire based EMS systems? I'll even expand that to ask what criteria is used to base that alleged success?

-be safe

[Amhet1]

OK, My bad. In the rant I deleted, I attempted to define "successful" in the context of a Fire-run EMS program.

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This suc·cess·ful Audio Help (sək-sěs'fəl) Pronunciation Key

adj.

Having a favorable outcome: a successful heart transplant.

Having obtained something desired or intended: was successful in stopping the leak of oil.

Having achieved wealth or eminence: a successful architect.

In the context of this discussion I dont think a heart transplant as a gold standard of success. In FD-run EMS, success would be simple goals such as;

1. "lack of animosity" between the fire side and the EMS side

2. Adequate number of ambulances to provide full coverage and maintaining it

3. Equivalent pay for EMS and Fire with appropriate increase in base pay for cross-trained

4. A formal EMS System for the area providing unified medical direction, communications, etc

5. Supervision of EMS from the Assistant Chief or Deputy Chief level (whichever is higher) that answers directly to the Chief of the department and not another subordinate.

I beleive that if any fire-run EMS could meet at least 3 of the above, you may be able to define them as "successful". I just pulled those goals out of my .... so Im sure there are other appropriate standards and these may have the bar too high.

[triemal04]

Gomer pyle, you must, must must get your facts straight on this issue; if you haven't noticed many people have very strong feelings about it, and while some are very well informed about the topic, many aren't, and will buy into anybodies rhetoric. Example: Seattle Fire Department does run one of the ambulance services in King County, as well, the majority of ALS care is provided by Fire Departments with King County Medic 1 (which if I remember correctly is a third service, not PUM) providing the rest. (AMR also does BLS transports in Seattle) Medic One is an interesting concept, and for my money, one that works very well, albeit one that can be confusing if you don't take the time to actually look into it. But, the thing to remember is that each individual service runs the service as they see fit; so yes, Seattle's success means that a Fire Dept is successful with EMS. Sorry to rain on your parade.

And you may want to look into Springfield Fire Dept, Eugene FD, Columbia River Fire/Rescue, Seattle FD, Bellevue FD, Canby FD, Lebanon FD, etc etc etc. Hell, most fire departments meet 3 or more (mostly more) of your standards and then some. (do you really think that's all it takes to make a good EMS service...wow...that's pathetic) Get over it. Do some fire departments screw EMS up royally? Sure. Do some do a good job? Sure. Once again...get over it.

Now, I'm sure you'll pull out the old standard of LA/LA County and FDNY, but here's a quick question for you: can you show me a third-service EMS agency (or any agency that is primarily 911 responses) that is of equal size to those agencies that does not have problems? This isn't to exscuse the crap that goes on in those places, but you have to keep in mind (unless you just want to rant and blame the boogeyman) that the bigger you get the harder it is to run a problem-free workplace. And, in case you haven't noticed, most city budgets are not doing so good these days, so if you rely on public funding...ouch.