I couldn't help myself....sorry!!

[Just Plain Ruff]

ok, I see a couple of things.

I'm going to play devils advocate here

I'm not going to play the blame game but if I had two children that had this type of medical conditions I think I would be at the dispatch center as soon as possible to make sure that that dispatch center had the most up to date directions to my house that they possibly could.

I would also be taking a trip personally to the chief's office to make sure that he/she also had the most accurate directions to my house in case of the emergency that IS going to happen, not might happen.

I would have not have taken it on blind faith that the ambulance would have known where to go in case of emergency. I would have been proactive and done my part.

I feel terrible for this family. What a nightmare and I would for damn sure be working with someone to find out how this can be prevented in the future.

Look at the Quaids whose children suffered catastrophic damage when they were given the wrong dosage of heparin during their stay in the hospital NICU. They are not suing the hospital because of the mistake of a nurse(we're all human they say) but they have effected true and valid change with the manufacturer of the heparin and it is now almost foolproof to give the wrong dosage from the vial. Instead of suing they made more effective change in other ways.

The first time the error occurred it can be attributed to the software but a 2nd time in as many weeks without the first time being corrected there needs to be substantial change to this organizations systems.

What makes me curious is this, was this the same ambulance crew that responded both times? Where were the first responders at on the second call.

Why did those first responders not get with dispatch and work to correct this problem.

It makes me believe the old adage, Oh someone else will take care of it.

A shame none-the-less but I wonder how long it will take for the family to find a lawyer to take the case though?

[rock_shoes]

I think the point is that a paid professional crew would have shown up with the ambulance. They wouldn't have shown up off duty in POV's because professionals know how to switch off at the end of their shift. They turn off the pager and they don't sit around listening to a scanner waiting for the "big one" that will land them in the paper and make them local heroes. Yes dispatch was also largely at fault. A professional crew would probably know their response area well enough to realize when dispatch gives bad directions.

[CBEMT]

If TWO off duty people showed up, that means they ere listening and being whackers.

I bet you'd be saying that if it was your kid too, right? :roll:

If I'm a non-EMS parent and my choice is between two people the almighty scatrat considers whackers and nothing, guess what? Your holier-than-though attitude loses.

Why were the volunteers there if there was a paid crew?

Where does it say anything about a paid crew? Plenty of volunteer departments have duty crews in the station. Just because you've never seen it, it doesn't happen?

[spenac]

Well I am totally anti volley :shock: . As to the two responding POV I see no fault in that if they did not delay the ambulance. I had a neighbor come to my house when her baby turned blue. I chose to treat the baby rather than tell her sorry I am off the clock, wait for the ambulance. By the time ambulance showed up baby was nice and pink.

Sadly for the 2 first responders they had a long wait for help with proper equipment to arrive. It probably breaks their hearts that the child died. Yes maybe they are whackers and volly's :pukeright: , but they were trying to help a child, good for them. Do they need to go paid? YES. Do they need to all be paramedics? Yes. But had they had no training I hope their hearts would have moved them to help as best they could.

Now as to the dispatch and ambulance crew direction screw up, as Ricky used to tell Lucy,"You got some splaining to do".

[Dustdevil]

If I'm a non-EMS parent and my choice is between two people the almighty scatrat considers whackers and nothing, guess what? Your holier-than-though attitude loses.

Interesting how the justification of vollies always comes back to the old "they're better than nothing" argument. That goes to show just how little excuse there really is for a volunteer system.

Seriously, folks... is "better than nothing" the best your community deserves?"

[rock_shoes]

Seriously, folks... is "better than nothing" the best your community deserves?"

Precisely. Unfortunately in some of the far flung regions of my home province "better than nothing" is the best that is provided. Remote stations in BC are so close to volunteer it hurts. Responders are on pager and paid a 4 hour "call-out" when an ambulance is called in their area. Many of them are driver only/EMR crews (EMR is roughly equivalent to EMT-. BC Ambulance is simply unwilling to provide a higher level of care when the call volume is 30-40 a year. In reality these outlying areas need some kind of "paramedic exchange program". Send medics from the busier centres out to these low volume places for a block every so often (Full timers in BC work a 4 days on 4 days off rotation). Think of it like a working vacation. Most likely these medics will get some time to de-stress but if something does happen the people in these outlying communities will get the experienced crews they deserve.

[brentoli]

Look at the Quaids whose children suffered catastrophic damage when they were given the wrong dosage of heparin during their stay in the hospital NICU. They are not suing the hospital because of the mistake of a nurse(we're all human they say) but they have effected true and valid change with the manufacturer of the heparin and it is now almost foolproof to give the wrong dosage from the vial. Instead of suing they made more effective change in other ways.

Change came ONLY because it happened to the Quaids. They didn't give a rat's ass when it happened to the common man. Because they knew the common man didn't have the clout to get anything done.

Exhibit A: POSTED: 5:09 pm EDT September 17, 2006

[web:2dbfe9758c]http://www.theindychannel.com/news/9869794/detail.html[/web:2dbfe9758c]

The mistake was caught and all of the babies were treated, but it was not in time for the two that died. One of the newborns was taken to Riley Hospital for Children and was listed in critical condition on Monday morning. The other three were listed in stable condition at Methodist Hospital Monday.

Hospital officials said a pharmay technician accidentally stocked a drawer with an adult dosage of the drug instead of an infant dosage. Several nurses then administered the drug, hospital officials said.

Exhibit B: POSTED Wednesday, November 21, 2007

[web:2dbfe9758c]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312357,00.html[/web:2dbfe9758c]

Langberg said three patients on Sunday each received vials containing 10,000 units per milliliter of heparin, a blood thinner, instead of vials with a concentration of 10 units per milliliter. The patients were receiving intravenous medications and the heparin was used to flush the catheters to prevent clotting.

...

Last year, three premature infants at an Indiana hospital died after a pharmacy technician mistakenly stocked the medicine cabinet with heparin vials containing a dose 1,000 times stronger than what the babies were supposed to receive. Three others also suffered overdoses but survived

Exhibit C: POSTED December 5, 2007

[web:2dbfe9758c]http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3956580&page=1[/web:2dbfe9758c]

After the deaths in Indianapolis, Baxter issued a safety alert to health care providers, but those blue labels remained on the drug.

Back on topic now...

[CBEMT]

Seriously, folks... is "better than nothing" the best your community deserves?"

Hardly.

My argument was that, with a volunteer system being the one in place at the time, and having to choose between 2 people onscene now versus an ambulance 10 minutes from now carrying 2 different people, I'll take the two now (in a world where I had no medical training).

Sorry. I tend to operate on the reality theory. I find it a waste of time to wax poetic about what things should be in a perfect world when the issue is a kid turning blue.

[spenac]

Hardly.

My argument was that, with a volunteer system being the one in place at the time, and having to choose between 2 people onscene now versus an ambulance 10 minutes from now carrying 2 different people, I'll take the two now (in a world where I had no medical training).

Sorry. I tend to operate on the reality theory. I find it a waste of time to wax poetic about what things should be in a perfect world when the issue is a kid turning blue.

I agree that somebody closer responding is no problem. Even off duty I get called if it sounds bad. If able I respond. I have told several that their loved ones were dead and nothing can be done. I have also cleared airways on children that would have died waiting for an ambulance. Now I do have my time sheet reflect the extra hours. I do not give my services away for free.

[Happiness]

Wow Dust you really have an issue with Vollies as do alot of people on this thread. I read that there was an error in the software for 911 so how the hell did it become the fault of vollies. Two off duties happen to be able to go to the scene and help while the ambulance was going off in the wrong direction BECAUSE OF A SOFTWARE ISSUE.

Now I have been a paramedic for 12 years and the reason is because our community didn't have any paramedics the day my brother in law died (sure could have used a volly that day). I do this job only for my community and I would do it for free so let me say one thing quit slamming people for volenteering there time for something they think is benifiting thier community maybe slam people for just being bad paramedic either paid or not paid.