Paramedic sits up front on transfer, patient dies

[medic686]

The sad thing about this article is thats its so true, theres alot of medics out there that are just like this medic described. Its called LAZY and its sad.

[ArkansasEMT72556]

Ok folks, I have read all the posts on this topic, and for those of you who care to know the facts of the story, here they are. The newspaper article was written only from the family's side of the story. I am the EMT-B that was on this transfer. First and foremost, I do know and did know that the medic was to be in the back with the pt. at all times. I have NEVER allowed a pt. to be in the back of my truck by themselves. Had the investigator gotten a copy of the surveillance tape from the camera outside the ER door he would have seen that there was only one person in the front of the truck. I do not have any way of knowing what the medic in the back was doing during this transport. There is not a camera back there nor any other way for me to see in the back from the front besides turning my head to look, and I had other things to concentrate on other than, was the medic doing his job? I have been through that run back and forth and there has been a conclusion drawn as to how the family thought they saw the medic in the front. The family believes what they think they saw, and Mrs. Kiehl's daughter states in the article, "I saw what I saw." Here is where I can dispute that everything she "saw" was not correct. She says in the article that I went to the intercom outside of the ER door and said I need help. There is no intercom outside that ER door, the only thing there is a keypad that I put the door code into and went inside. So, this should give some idea as to the story being not totally reliable as fact. As for my probation, I was only put on probation for going to the wrong hospital, which was a dispatch error, and I never saw the transfer form in the paperwork given to the medic, to see that I was originally given the wrong destination. The outcome of this transfer was awful, and I am sorry that the pt died, but I am not the reason that it happened, and am really tired of catching the blame and flack for this run. I hope this will set a few of you straight. Me going back to basic school would not teach me anything more than I already knew that day.

[defib_wizard]

Ok what happened to the medic?

[spenac]

I am surprised that no one has asked is it possible that the family in their hysterical state is wrong about what they thought they saw. Is it not possible that they saw him exit the passenger side door of the box and just assumed it was the front passenger door? Is it not possible that he was in the back of the box? Is it not possible that the hose got kinked with him trying to position her for CPR? Is it not possible that stories change because as days go by the many different calls they got started running together? Is it not possible that the Basic and the paramedic had different stories because of different perspectives based on different positions in ambulance and different education?

I agree based on that article it sounds like they suck but what if it was really just that one nightmare call where everything went wrong? Just saying what if?

ArkansasEMT72556 the above was my first comment on this topic. I raised many questions that really needed to be considered. Please do not take offense to comments that are made. We dissect the material and "facts" that we have available to us to help us avoid a bad situation.

Thank you for being brave and coming forward. We look forward to your input on this topic as well as the others here on the forum.

[sirduke]

First off Congrats on having the fortitude to come forth Arkansas, after reading all the post, don't know if I would have ventured forth as you did.

Be prepared for the onslaught, it's coming, not saying you did anything wrong, but there will be flack thrown your way.

I too, wonder what happened to the "medic" or should I say by the sound of the article, MED-Dick.

Dust, I noticed you seemed to be giving this medic a lot of slack, or reasonalble doubt. WTF, you getting soft?

As for the ones who seemed to come down hard on the basic, again, WTF, isn't the point you all pound over and over ad nausem, that the paramedic is the one responsible due to us EMTs being nothing more than oxygen wasting lowlife wackers.

Come on fkers, you can't have it both ways.

[letmesleep]

Wait a second, If I read this thread correctly, what I saw ArkansasEMT72556 being accused of, was changing her story and potentially trying to cover up the truth. Did she change her story? Was she involved in a cover up? At this point only she knows the truth. I didn't see anywhere in any others post stating that she should be held responsible for the Pts death, again, unless I'm mistaken.

As a provider, ArkansasEMT72556 should be held responsible to tell the truth, otherwise she is as far away as she can be, from being a Pt advocate. Am I judging her at this point in time? No, but since she is here we should take the time to ask her for her side of the story, so, ArkansasEMT72556 did you try to cover this tragic event up to save your and your partners asses? Now before you answer that question (if your going to of course), remember that especially if were a cover up, pleading the 5th is within your rights as an American citizen. Holding ArkansasEMT72556 responsible for the death of this Pt is BS at best. Reporting it is a whole other issue however, and she should (as a Pt advocate) hold herself to a higher standard and be up front about what happened in this case.

ArkansasEMT72556, I believe the real issue for the "attacks" as you see them is that your story seems to read differently within this article, and the fact that said article is what we have to go on, until now, it doesn't paint a friendly picture for you or your partner. For example:

I once ran a MVC involving 7 Pts and 2 cars. Car 1 had a driver, and car 2 had 6 members of a family in it. Both car struck head on due to car 1 crossing over the HWY (70) and becoming airborne. Hwy speed at that time was 60MPH giving them an impact rate of speed at 120MPH+, but because we all know (if you have driven in Missouri) that us locals either drive well below the speed limit or well above the speed limit. The point I'm trying to make is that I remember those specific details, even after 15 years have past. It was a horrific MVC as I'm sure this call was for you.

Now as far as the "medic" on this call, the blame goes to him (assuming that the story provided is correct) one way or another. If he was up front and not with the Pt (no matter where he may have been sitting in the back), then he abandoned her....period, end of story. However If he was in back with her, and did not respond in an appropriate manner as it seems to be (again assuming he was in the back), then he is purely incompetent and either way he was neglectful in this Pts care. His cert should be shredded and as Rid wrote:

Write the check... Get the orange suit out for the so called Paramedic.

[sirduke]

Read it again oh Great one, there was a comment that said,

"part of the basics job is to (respectively) let the medic know this isn't right, and if the medic continues to disagree, involve medical control."

To quote Ventmedic, " It is a partership and the EMT driving should know his paramedic doesn't belong up front when there is a patient in the back."

USApride2004 makes a similar comment.

Sounds like somebody is talking about both sides of their mouths.....

[letmesleep]

Wait a second, If I read this thread correctly, what I saw ArkansasEMT72556 being accused of, was changing her story and potentially trying to cover up the truth. Did she change her story? Was she involved in a cover up? At this point only she knows the truth. I didn't see anywhere in any others post stating that she should be held responsible for the Pts death, again, unless I'm mistaken.

As a provider, ArkansasEMT72556 should be held responsible to tell the truth, otherwise she is as far away as she can be, from being a Pt advocate. Am I judging her at this point in time? No, but since she is here we should take the time to ask her for her side of the story, so, ArkansasEMT72556 did you try to cover this tragic event up to save your and your partners asses? Now before you answer that question (if your going to of course), remember that especially if were a cover up, pleading the 5th is within your rights as an American citizen. Holding ArkansasEMT72556 responsible for the death of this Pt is BS at best. Reporting it is a whole other issue however, and she should (as a Pt advocate) hold herself to a higher standard and be up front about what happened in this case.

ArkansasEMT72556, I believe the real issue for the "attacks" as you see them is that your story seems to read differently within this article, and the fact that said article is what we have to go on, until now, it doesn't paint a friendly picture for you or your partner. For example:

I once ran a MVC involving 7 Pts and 2 cars. Car 1 had a driver, and car 2 had 6 members of a family in it. Both car struck head on due to car 1 crossing over the HWY (70) and becoming airborne. Hwy speed at that time was 60MPH giving them an impact rate of speed at 120MPH+, but because we all know (if you have driven in Missouri) that us locals either drive well below the speed limit or well above the speed limit. The point I'm trying to make is that I remember those specific details, even after 15 years have past. It was a horrific MVC as I'm sure this call was for you.

Now as far as the "medic" on this call, the blame goes to him (assuming that the story provided is correct) one way or another. If he was up front and not with the Pt (no matter where he may have been sitting in the back), then he abandoned her....period, end of story. However If he was in back with her, and did not respond in an appropriate manner as it seems to be (again assuming he was in the back), then he is purely incompetent and either way he was neglectful in this Pts care. His cert should be shredded and as Rid wrote:

Write the check... Get the orange suit out for the so called Paramedic.

Ok, maybe things are a little different in GA, but I do believe if you were to slow down sirduke, and actually read what I wrote instead of jumping at the first nibble you get on your hook, you will see that you jumped the gun here. Please for the sake of any further argument you might have already played out in your head, refer to the red highlighted area, I covered that as well.

It seems to me that you are getting your panties in a wade around here, why?

[sirduke]

I give up, you are just too smart for little old me, what with me being a lowly EMT-I, its a wonder I can even muster the intellegence to read these forums.

My humblest apologies to your greatness.

Guess I'll go get me some panties to WADE in, or did you mean wad?

[spenac]

Guess I'll go get me some panties to WADE in, or did you mean wad?

That theres funny I don't care who you are.