Are volunteer BLS services beneficial?

[Doug]

paid service for less then 100 calls a year...well, then you run into the other end of the spectrum...how skilled can a service be at less then 100 calls a year? I'm pretty sure in some states you would not be allowed to run ALS on less then 100 calls. And I assume you mean the service has less then 100 calls a year...which means unless you are the sole EMS provider you are actually doing less then half of those calls...of which national polls have shown that only approx 15% of EMS calls are actually ALS...wel you see where I am going...

[TOPDOGEMT]

I guess I didn't make my self clear. We are an ALS service prior to the helicopter's arrival we have iv access, 12 lead done, pt packaged for transport, and usually the proper treatment started. I believe that a helicopter is requested, it is not for just the higher level of care it is for rapid transport due to the pt's condition. For a flight crew to take more than the golden ten minutes on scene can be detrimental to the pt's outcome. Please don't take this personal it is a local problem that we have here and I hope that some day for our community's benefit it is resolved soon. We do have one of the first helicopter services in the country here and for the most part I as well as most other responders are very proud of them. By the grace of God we have only had one "crash" in 30 years and nobody was seriously injured. Sorry for getting off on a tangent but I thought I should explain myself.

[Chief1C]

If you're going to insult Volunteers, at least spell the word correctly. :roll:

Not every area warrants ALS

Really? Since you're talking small, less than a hundred calls, I assume it's rural. Perhaps secluded. Where do you come up with the idea that the patients would need not ALS?

[spenac]

paid service for less then 100 calls a year...well, then you run into the other end of the spectrum...how skilled can a service be at less then 100 calls a year? I'm pretty sure in some states you would not be allowed to run ALS on less then 100 calls. And I assume you mean the service has less then 100 calls a year...which means unless you are the sole EMS provider you are actually doing less then half of those calls...of which national polls have shown that only approx 15% of EMS calls are actually ALS...wel you see where I am going...

We run as a MICU ( Mobile Intensive Care Unit ). All of us also work at other busier services as well. There is no argument to justify not being a paid service. In a very rural situation as this service is when we get calls they are serious and often with multiple patients. Of the last 10 calls here only one was for lack of better word BLS and it was a non-transport. The rest required paramedic treatment. But even if they had all been non-transport it would still be no excuse not to be a paid service. It really does not cost anything beyond labor to change from volunteer to paid. Force the issue and make it happen. This will benefit all of us and more importantly the patients we treat.

[Eydawn]

If we choose not to engage in the important dialogue about our services as EMS here, be it the volunteer vs. paid or medic vs. EMT-B argument, where will we choose to engage?

If you can't persevere and explore the nuances that arise with each successive round of the argument, and choose not to participate anymore, you relegate yourself to the water cooler once more, waiting for someone else to come up with the solution for you. Yes, I know it seems redundant to go through it all again, in different manifestations-- but it is vaulable; yes I know some believe it should be a "sticky" so new members can see what's been said... but how is that productive?

I know that I, as a newer EMT, would have brushed this site off and decided that it wasn't worth my time if someone had just pointed me towards a locked "sticky" and looked down upon me for bringing up the question.

The world itself is divisive. Any question asked begs people to line up on opposite sides of the room, with scatterings in the middle. We might as well stop talking about *anything* at all if this is the route that things are going down. Being diverse, being human-- that is where our strength and intelligence resides. If you decide that you're tired of people disagreeing, and head for the hills... you've just acted to remove yourself from the dialogue, and hence, decrease its diversity.

Keep arguing this. The only way to learn is through discussion. As long as it doesn't degrade immediately into "yo momma's UGLY and she's a volley..." it is vaulable, even if it does reach that point eventually in the thread.

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[Just Plain Ruff]

If we choose not to engage in the important dialogue about our services as EMS here, be it the volunteer vs. paid or medic vs. EMT-B argument, where will we choose to engage?

If you can't persevere and explore the nuances that arise with each successive round of the argument, and choose not to participate anymore, you relegate yourself to the water cooler once more, waiting for someone else to come up with the solution for you. Yes, I know it seems redundant to go through it all again, in different manifestations-- but it is vaulable; yes I know some believe it should be a "sticky" so new members can see what's been said... but how is that productive?

I know that I, as a newer EMT, would have brushed this site off and decided that it wasn't worth my time if someone had just pointed me towards a locked "sticky" and looked down upon me for bringing up the question.

The world itself is divisive. Any question asked begs people to line up on opposite sides of the room, with scatterings in the middle. We might as well stop talking about *anything* at all if this is the route that things are going down. Being diverse, being human-- that is where our strength and intelligence resides. If you decide that you're tired of people disagreeing, and head for the hills... you've just acted to remove yourself from the dialogue, and hence, decrease its diversity.

Keep arguing this. The only way to learn is through discussion. As long as it doesn't degrade immediately into "yo momma's UGLY and she's a volley..." it is vaulable, even if it does reach that point eventually in the thread.

Wendy

CO EMT-B

I said I'd stop responding on these types of threads but this one doesn't count because I was already in the mix. Future threads such as these I will not respond to.

Ok let me put it a different way.

these threads are counter productive. We have a finite number of people on this board who post. Of that finite number we have a wide range of opinions of which everyone thinks they are right. When you have no more than about 25 people arguing, many arguing the same thing over and over how can this be productive.

I for one am tired of the same ole same ole in terms of volunteer versus paid. EMT versus Medic Rural versus Urban

Heck even the Admin had to come in and delete a bunch of posts (so it said in the first couple of replies) because once again, it did not stay on topic and seems like it dropped down to the lowest common denominator(I seem to be saying this saying a lot these days) and became a personal or negative responses.

This is the type of debate that you just don't get anywhere with. Each person's Epeen is bigger than the other and there is no way that the other person may be right, it's just my opinion and that's the Gospel.

Until these threads become more productive then I'll start to post again but not till then.

[tinman694]

Same old tired crap....Same (Non) conclusion....

Why can't we all just Get along???

Now if we could only get rid of Dust and Ruff's RDOF (That is the Rectal Data Opinion Facility) things would go just fine around here!

Remember: Cleveland Rocks!

[Dustdevil]

Until these threads become more productive then I'll start to post again but not till then.

Fat chance. They are doomed from the beginning. They almost all share a common foundation. They're started by a basic or volunteer, with the intent of stroking themselves and thumbing their nose at ALS and professional providers. Then it quickly backfires on them, and they themselves start whining about it.

The best thing that could happen here would not be the banning of basic vs. medic vs. volly vs. professional threads. It would be the banning of any member who posts asking for opinions, then get's bent out of shape over the opinions he receives. :roll:

[spenac]

Fat chance. They are doomed from the beginning. They almost all share a common foundation. They're started by a basic or volunteer, with the intent of stroking themselves and thumbing their nose at ALS and professional providers. Then it quickly backfires on them, and they themselves start whining about it.

The best thing that could happen here would not be the banning of basic vs. medic vs. volly vs. professional threads. It would be the banning of any member who posts asking for opinions, then get's bent out of shape over the opinions he receives. :roll:

dust there would be nobody left. You and me would be out quick because we are very opinionated. :shock:

[dahlio]

That's about as poor an analogy as you could have possibly used. The Wright brothers invented something from the ground up. We're not doing that. It is no longer the 1970s, and EMS is no longer a new business.

You're right that's not the best analogy. Doesn't matter. Compared to the Fire Service, the police service, and the hospital service, EMS is new. EMS has developed a long way from what it was, but it is relatively new.

In fact we are a lot older than many currently prospering industries and professions. We already know exactly how to run state of the art EMS. There is nothing to be invented here. The product is developed. We just have a lot of idiots in a lot of communities who are totally ignorant of that fact and refuse to get on board.

Products can always get better, but that's besides the point. Like I said before, it takes time for those communities to realize that EMS is an essential service, and volunteers just aren't cutting it anymore. That's what takes time to develop. The structure is there, but the mindset of those communities is what takes time.