Fire Dept. Requirement-EMTP?

[firedoc5]

I know many if not most Fire Dept.s require all to become EMT's. That's just common sense. But right after I got on my Dept. full time it was required that all new firemen were required to become Paramedics. Luckily I was already a Paramedic when I joined. But the problem(s) begins, what if someone just can't grasp EMS on an ALS level? What happens when someone is a great Firefighter but can't handle the advanced EMS...they're disqualified?? Or vice versa, what if they are an oustanding Paramedic but struggle with firefigher duties...they're disqualified. At my dept. they had up to three years to obtain their EMTP. Time and time again those who couldn't do their EMS in that time frame had to step down. One argument is that making those requirements more or less weeded out those that were "weak links" and that the one's who could complete it were better well trained...or something like that.

[JPINFV]

Just to get this out of the way, but this is a good reason why EMS should not be combined with the fire department.

Ok, that said, if the department insists on EMS based fire suppression, then this is fully understandable. It's simply not fair to have only a fraction of the department's employees handle the majority of the calls for no better reason than some people can't hack the department's additional responsibilities. I can foresee discontent by the non-paramedics as a wage gap opens and I can foresee discontent on the side of the fire-medics when they're constantly running while Jim-Bob the certified first responder firefighter sits on the couch all day long watching Dr. Phil.

[firedoc5]

Ok, th I can foresee discontent by the non-paramedics as a wage gap opens and I can foresee discontent on the side of the fire-medics when they're constantly running while Jim-Bob the certified first responder firefighter sits on the couch all day long watching Dr. Phil.

One other thing I forgot to mention is the wage difference. Prior to the 1989 eligibility list, a paramedic would receive $2500/yr as an incentive pay. But as of 1991 eligibility list (more or less the first where becoming a Paramedic was mandatory) you received only $250/yr. And it is my understanding that after the 1996 list there is no extra pay for carrying out Paramedic duties. So the wage difference is not that lucrative.

I believe the requirement was enforced due to a worry that not enough firemen would go commit themselves to the extra work and that would cause a shortage of ALS personnel in the future. So they made it mandatory, then took away the extra incentive to save a buck.

[zzyzx]

JPINVIV wrote: "EMS based fire suppression"

[Dustdevil]

My old department used to fire anybody who failed out of paramedic school, because too many people were intentionally flunking out. But then somebody decided that was racist, and they stopped firing them, and reinstated hundreds who had been fired for failing paramedic school in previous years. Now that's quality EMS.

[JPINFV]

JPINVIV wrote: "EMS based fire suppression"

Well, it is a more accurate description of what they do than fire based EMS.

[tinman694]

EMS Based Fire suppression is a mainstay of the Southeastern United states description of the "Fire Service" --- at least the only area I am intimately familiar with.

If you do not believe me---just check the NFIRS run data for those departments who claim to have fire and ems....

It is not even close...and this is not a blanket statement---the fire service would be without much funding without having the EMS 'mandate'

hehehe....that's gonna stir things up a bit...

Around here...if you want to make a rank--you have to ride the box....doesn't mean you have to give a flip....

[firedoc5]

My department averaged between 3200 & 3400 calls a year consistantly. We figured between 85% & 90% were EMS.

[racing-emt03]

Its no secret that alot of fire depts (that do not also run the EMS service) need medical assist calls to justify a full time existance. For instance one FD in my area averages 1100-1200 calls per year covered by two 24 hr engine companies. in 2006 76 of their calls were actual fire. But some depts do not need medicals or do not run them at all and do just fine. My belief is if you do not have a qualification requirement (even for volly depts) as in EMT-B or at least first responder they do not need to be on any medical scene unless there is rescue invoved

[ericenglund]

My old department used to fire anybody who failed out of paramedic school, because too many people were intentionally flunking out. But then somebody decided that was racist, and they stopped firing them, and reinstated hundreds who had been fired for failing paramedic school in previous years. Now that's quality EMS.

funny how that works these days