Was hazing a bad thing?

[MedicAR]

I have to agree the 'not sitting in the recliner for a year' thing is just a pompus display of seniority, and teaches nothing, and breeds alot of unnecessary discord among the 'team'.

I don't have anyone do anything that I am not willing to do myself, and if the new member sees me doing it, then it won't be viewed as 'punishment' or 'bullshit make work'.

I think that rather than bagging on someone because they slipped up, take them aside, point out the mistakes and help them learn from it, as opposed to turning it into an 'ass jumping episode'.

As for making the new person do all the scut work, while the rest of the crew sits on their asses, if I see something like that....you're automatically done! If the person working alone tells me its by their choice, thats a different matter, or if the other person is on restricted duty......but to just make that 'new guy/gal' do all the shit work....aint happening in MY house!

There's differences between "slipping up" and bringing in an X-Box or a hangover and thinking it's alright to take it easy all day without checking the truck or doing any side work. Again, I think I've painted this far too broadly. It's not unusual to have a new hire come in and go straight to bed. This is not an exaggeration. They do it. And their partner is stuck because there is no supervision. Seniority does not equal superiority, and the odds of an actual supervisor coming out to get them our of bed are slim. When complaints are made we're told to do our own work and not worry about it. In my opinion, making sure my partner does their job is part of my work because if they don't I have to take up the slack to be sure everything is there and in working order.

Everybody seems to have grabbed on to the recliner thing. It's not a point of cruelty and it was rarely abused by senior members. Every organization will have a bad apple from time to time, and in a good situation it would be taken care of as you all have mentioned here. It's not about sitting around and doing nothing. It was done to keep the new hire awake, alert and learning. There is always something to do and removing a luxury like that will help them to find it. I am more than willing to show them anything they want to know about. I'll gladly give the hows, whens, and whys behind absolutely anything. But I can't force it on them, and the recliner was just a tool to nudge them along. I also think it weeded out the lazy new hires in that they weren't patient enough to wait that year and went elsewhere to become known as a mediocre EMT/medic. Now we're the place the mediocre recruits come to, and I think it has to do with the lack of discipline.

Ultimately, my organization is in sharp decline. For nearly 20 years we were the place to be. We took part in national and worldwide drug trials. We had a waiting list for new employees. We were able to select the cream of the crop every time. But as leadership has eroded, so has training. And as training went so did the prestige. And as that went, so did the prime employees. I desperately want to fix it. I have strong roots in this area and both want to stay and want my organization to succeed. What I'm doing here is looking at what's different for new hires now compared to when I started. Maybe a return to the old ways isn't a good thing, but then that's why I posted. I'm looking for some new ideas!

[fiznat]

MedicAR, taking your followup posts into account I think you've got the right idea in general. I guess it is such a fine line between "tough love" for newbies who need to learn how to get things right, and going overboard with the restrictions and singling out. I think most agree that a "no sitting in the recliner for a year" rule is not good, while at the same time we all also probably agree that the newbie shouldn't TRY to sit in the best seat first, out of his own initiative and respect.

A newbie who sits down first in the best seat has something wrong with him that needs to be corrected I think, but it is NOT "you broke the recliner rule," it is: "you need to have a little more humility and respect for those who were here before you." Newbies should be proud of where they work, feel excited to be a part of the team but also humbled by that opportunity. Exactly how to foster that attitude, I think, is somewhere more aggressive than letting people do what they want, but not as extreme as "hazing." A fine line, for sure, but if it were easy we wouldn't be talking about it.

I think a good training program for this kind of environment needs to have everyone on board. All of your senior and intermediate employees need to have bought into the program, and support it whenever an issue comes up. If a newbie comes in and goes right to bed, EVERYONE ELSE needs to notice and say something. "Hey what do you think you're doing? You have things to get done first!" etc. I think this comes out of a strong sense of community, which should feel natural since you guys all work and (for your shift) live together. Every effort towards bringing in good people should be focused on making better what you already have.

...I dont know, I'm not in HR or anything, just some observations from my years on the road.

[spenac]

Newbie coming in going straight to bed will find his/her butt out of a job. That does not fly, not even for the old timers. When all chores are done fine take a nap so if it gets busy your fresh. Newbies on top of chores really need to spend extra time learning the truck and the protocols not sleeping.

[DwayneEMTP]

I too got caught up in the question and lost sight of the spirit of your posts.

Behavioral psychology is a terribly strong tool for developing behaviors and attitudes. The problem is that while everyone claims they use it, it's rare to find anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of it's concepts, which are very, very specific.

A couple of books that you might find useful.

Don't Shoot the Dog, Karen Pryor.

Don't Shoot the Dog at Amazon

A terrible title, as it has little to nothing to do with dogs specifically. A great primer for behaviorism, written by a woman pretty good at getting the point across. A small paperback, quick, fun, valuable read.

The Game of Work, Charles Coonradt.

The Game of Work at Amazon

This book caught my attention years ago, as the author asked this question, " Why are people willing to pay to work harder than they will work to get paid?"

If I remember right, he worked in some type of cold storage facility. The employees constantly complained about the cold, the low pay, needing more breaks and chances to get warm coffee...but then on the weekends payed $100s of dollars to go skiing! They worked much harder skiing than driving their fork lifts, yet never complained, as well as paid a lot of money for the privilege! So he set out to define the difference between work and play and see if they could meet in the middle somewhere...He did a great job. Again, it's been a while, but I remember it as a powerful, logical, productive book.

I think the common thread we see here is that randomly treating new people as if they represent the lowest common denominator, creates people that believe they ARE the lowest common denominator.

Whatever else happens, you must not develop a system around the 5-10% of the losers (that should be fired anyway), because it punishes and retards the growth of those that had potential before they entered that system.

Good luck to you!

Dwayne

[LisaO925]

Works great on paper, but most new hires won't even see you do it unless forced, and they're not forced anymore. That's where the recliner thing comes in. I understand where it could be viewed as a superiority thing, but part of it too is making the new hires find something to do. They are simply disconnected and won't do the side work when shown, much less if you expect them to learn from example.

I would think that any new hire would look at any of that "hazing" ( i.e. cleaning lug nuts, taking out trash, dishes, etc) would be something they want to do. Hell I would be happy to do ANY of that, esp. stock the rig, because that means I am doing the job I love, wanted, and worked hard to get. How can any of that above even be considered hazing?? I would kill for the chance to wash an ambulance right now, just so I could be closer to it, and learn it better..

[Dustdevil]

Behavioral psychology is a terribly strong tool for developing behaviors and attitudes. The problem is that while everyone claims they use it, it's rare to find anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of it's concepts, which are very, very specific.

Dwayne makes a good point that I think we have been dancing around without really stating. That is, organisational psychology (which absolutely should be a required course for an EMS bachelor degree programme) is a great thing, but it is a well studied science. If you have some formal education in the ways of behavioural and organisational psychology, and understand those concepts sufficiently to implement scientifically sound initiatives to improve your employees and your organisation, then that's wonderful. But what I see in EMS is just a lot of people with, as Dwayne stated, little or no true understanding of these issues, and are just pulling stuff out of their arse, with nothing more than

we've always done it this way" as their justification. That's every bit as lame as the n00b who comes to work and immediately crashes in your favourite recliner.

Unless you (the generic "you", not just the OP) have some formal education and expertise in human behaviour, you have no business experimenting with it in the workplace, just like those without formal medical education have no business practising medcine. Fiznat said it best. You are qualified to do only one thing; Lead by example. In this case, it doesn't sound like that is being adequately done.

[kitkat]

So, in regards to this situation , which by the sounds of it, we all have experienced this to some degree.

Would you care to answer a few questions?

How many of you are invovled with a service/company that have something like a:

*lead hand

*crew chief

*mentor

*preceptor

*field training officer

*clinical team leader

**Whatever term you want to call it**

How do you earn this title in your company?

What is the criteria that you must meet?

Is it pure seniority?

Level of training?

Warm body?

Any adult education training courses?

Formal instructor program?

Personal integrity/and work ethic (ie CQI, CME, Performance reviews?)

Is this something that is kept in peer groups or management? (ie: union groups)

Does your service/company offer any professional development planning/programs?

Is there a "path to leadership" ?

(other than what may be discussed in the professionalism component of a paramedic program)

How do you get promoted? Other than an application process. *criteria?*

How, or does the company compensate you for this "title"?

Renumiration/promotion? Both?

If you do have this type of "program"

How is it regulated?

Who is responsible to whom?

What is that retention plan for employees, within the service/company?

Is this a personal issue or is it a management issue?

I hope that you can wade through all these questions.

[Just Plain Ruff]

I understand the skills-based "hazing," if you can even really call it that, but I'm not really a fan of forcing newbies to do all of the scut work and whatnot. I don't understand how it teaches people to "be a part of the team" by making one newbie do all of the work nobody else wants to do. Is that teamwork?

When given the opportunity, I try to lead by example. If I want the newbie to clean between the lugnuts, he will do it correctly because he saw me do it myself last time.

Personally I feel like this kinda hazing is more about asserting the superiority and rank of those already established rather than helping a new person become an effective member of the team. That may be just me though.

What happens if the newbie is the only one hired in like 3 years due to low attrition. Is he expected to do the newbie duties until another newbie comes along?

[MedicAR]

So, in regards to this situation , which by the sounds of it, we all have experienced this to some degree.

Would you care to answer a few questions?

How many of you are invovled with a service/company that have something like a:

*lead hand

*crew chief

*mentor

*preceptor

*field training officer

*clinical team leader

**Whatever term you want to call it**

How do you earn this title in your company?

What is the criteria that you must meet?

Is it pure seniority?

Level of training?

Warm body?

Any adult education training courses?

Formal instructor program?

Personal integrity/and work ethic (ie CQI, CME, Performance reviews?)

Is this something that is kept in peer groups or management? (ie: union groups)

Does your service/company offer any professional development planning/programs?

Is there a "path to leadership" ?

(other than what may be discussed in the professionalism component of a paramedic program)

How do you get promoted? Other than an application process. *criteria?*

How, or does the company compensate you for this "title"?

Renumiration/promotion? Both?

If you do have this type of "program"

How is it regulated?

Who is responsible to whom?

What is that retention plan for employees, within the service/company?

Is this a personal issue or is it a management issue?

I hope that you can wade through all these questions.

I'm sure I will continue to shock and awe this board with my response to this question. We do have "preceptors" I used to do it a lot. There were no real qualifications, only that the preceptor was a solid employee with two years or so under their belt. Then hiring went to pot. We took (and still take) every loser that comes through the door. Once we preceptors realized that the new hires would be released to work on their own whether we gave them glowing reviews or recommended remedial training, we went to management and made our case. We were assured that this wasn't the case. I personally took on one recruit and never had a positive evaluation on him. He was released anyway. Once this trend was made clear, the preceptors started to refuse to take on trainees. Now, we have preceptors that have been here as short as three months and that barely function on their own. Most of the senior staff that were preceptors are gone, and those that are left refuse to take trainees because we don't want to be held accountable when the trainees are released and do real harm.

Our training officer does double duty as our computer IS (or IT or whatever) person and is so preoccupied with the computers that there is no real training at all.

As far as compensation for preceptors, there was absolutely none.

Continuing education? Well, we used to offer partial reimbursement for college classes that would pertain to some area of our job. This has stopped because it got to the point that employees would get the classes they needed for another career path paid for, then leave. We offer two paramedic scholarships annually for EMTs that want to attend medic school. There is no careful selection of the EMTs that apply, and generally they pay the way for anyone that will go. This year, we only have one in school and the prospects for next year are not good.

There is no "path to leadership" and promotions go to the finest kiss-asses and family members of the current management team. Dissent is not tolerated, even if said dissent is not only warranted, but follows all the proper procedures. Once you voice an opinion contrary to management's you're branded a troublemaker and treated as such.

Our retention plan is non-existent. Come, go, do as you will, it's okay by us. In fact, it's better not to stay past 3-5 years because you'll start to cost too much and just be disgruntled.

I know I'm making my organization sound terrible, and I don't like that. But I sincerely want to make things better and I think that in order to do that, I have to tell it like it is to seek solid advice. I do not believe my management team is on board with the idea to make things better. They've had the opportunities and let one after another slip past, so this needs to be a grass roots start. The vast majority of my family lives within our coverage area as well as most of my friends and I want to do the right thing by them as well as everyone else that relies on us.

[MedicAR]

I want to say a big "thank you" to everyone participating here! You've got me thinking, to say the least.

I couldn't find the comment, but it came down to "lead by example" which is as simple as it gets. I'm questioning everything I do now. Is it a good example? Is this how it should always be done? Is this what I would expect to see another employee do? The answer is "yes" the overwhelming majority of the time. When the answer is "no" I make adjustments, regardless of whether anyone is around or will ever know any different.

I don't think it will fix things here, but I can easily hold my head up and say I'm doing the absolute best I know how.