Neesie

PRPG - if you don't like these posts, PLEASE feel free to not comment on them. Nobody is making you reply. As for the other things that have been stated on here. Yes...I agree. Everyone should do their jobs and not worry about their job title. If you read my original post, my concern was with people saying they are something they aren't. I think everyone should be viewed as having the same goal. Everyone here is/should be concerned with the patient and their care. Do what you can for them and get them to the hospital. I have a real issue with SOME paramedics that have that awful case of the "GOD COMPLEX". (please don't take this the wrong way. I don't mean that ALL paramedics are like that but you know there are some out there. I don't want this to start a new post and go haywire) With PCP's that call themselves a "Paramedic" just to look good to someone else already has the beginning of that God complex and it will just escalate to something worse if and when they become a paramedic.

you know azcep...you are right. I guess I need to let go of what "seems to be right and wrong" and worry about myself. I know that I don't mislead people. I make sure they know the truth about me. Whether or not I choose to call myself a paramedic or an EMT shouldn't matter. I show my patients that I am well educated, I do my job well and I am comfortable with doing what I have been trained to do. If I can make a difference in my patients outcome then great. If all I can do is comfort them while they are taking their last breaths...then so be it. I am an EMT/PCP...nothing more and nothing less.

OK Dust. I appologize for using the word "skills". I used that word because in other posts I have been jumped on for saying that I pracitce medicine. They have said that I apparently don't know what I am doing because I have to practice. Anyway, It is easier to say that one needs to perfect their skills learned rather than saying that one needs to perfect their education they were taught. I understand what you are saying Dust. Infact I agree with what you are saying. You just have the ability to say it better than I do. :roll: :?

Yes, that was my point. The fact that people are giving a false impression of what they really are. VS, I have to assume that you are trying to be funny with your little scenerio. When I stated that I have had many people ask the differences, I didn't mean on an emerg call, although it has happened. Most of the time it has been on a transfer when you have a prolonged time to talk with your patient. We have transfers up to 3-4 hours long. (When we have to take the patient to another hospital in another city) We have 2 services that are within half an hour from us that employ ACP's. I do believe at times that is why we are asked these questions. There are times that we are too busy with emerg calls or already have a couple units in another city and aren't able to take another one. We ask these services to come transport these patients for us and sometimes they have the ACP's on car. The patients find out that way as well, so then the questions arise and we are back at step one again.

I believe it is very important to work for a while after any education you receive before going on to the next level. This is the time that you perfect your skills. Just because you finished school and passed the exams as well as any provincial exam you may have to write to get your registration, doesn't make you "good" at what you do. You need the experiences you get while working to help you along with any further levels. Practicums give you some experience, but I feel that you need more than that. If you do just one code, does that make you comfortable and knowledgeable for the next one? Probably not. If you do a lot of them then maybe. We have a lot of students that go through our service and for a lot of them they are only required to do 20 calls and then they are eligable to write the provincial exam. Some of them go straight on to paramedic school and a lot of them fail because they aren't prepared for it. All of our students are required (by our service) to be at the service for 21 days and do all calls and THEN if we feel they are prepared, comfortable and doing well, we will pass them. It is while they are working that they develop the ability to talk to patients, to gain confidence and knowledge and the ability to perfect their assessments, skills and techniques. This is just my opinion but I do strongly feel that you should work for atleast 6 months to a year before going on to further your education.

Ok, I figured I would get such a response. I mostly was trying to vent but to be fair, I did ask if it was just me or if anyone else felt the same way. Looks like it is pretty much just me! lol First off, Vs-eh?, yes, I am referring to my provincial EMT not the US EMT-B. My PCP course is a CMA approved course. The extra training I have and as well as the province that I work in allows me to initiate IV's, insert combi tubes and LMA's as well as drugs that I have been educated on. The thing that bothers me most is that I feel that SOME PCP's are wrongfully persuading the public to believe that we are capable of doing the same skills as an ACP or CCP can. When asked, I inform whoever is asking that yes, I have the first level of paramedicine BUT I am by no means at the level of paramedic that they believe a paramedic is. I explain the differences (because that is part of our job isn't it...to help educate the public as well???) to the best of my ability. And speaking of doing things to the best of my ability, I always do my job to the best of my ability. I do everything possible that I can for my patient. I agree with Phil that yes, a paramedic does define what we do better than a technician does. But, how many of the public look that up in the dictionary? Probably not very many. I have had to deal with this a lot at work. Our service is a BLS only service. Many patients ask what the difference is and are concerned if they find out (whether it is us or someone else that explains it to them) what the difference is. They automatically think they need a "Paramedic" on board incase something happens. They don't realize that yes, we can do many of the things that a full fledged medic can do. But what's worse is the confidence lost when they find out you aren't really what you say you are. That is why it always bothers me when someone calls themself something they aren't. Anyway, that is my opinion and everyone is entitled to their own opinion right?

OK...I have been bothered by this for a long long time and the post about missing obvious things has made me think that I will start a new post. This has nothing to do with missing things however, the post has swayed in a different direction. Anyways....what I am wanting to say is... Is it just me or are there other people out there that it bothers them when PCP's call themselves paramedics? I was trained as a PCP but by no means do I call myself as paramedic. (for those that may not know, a PCP stands for Primary Care Paramedic) A PCP is a glorified EMT. It is the same course with a few upgrades to it. We can do a few more drugs, we are educated with more A&P and can do a few more skills, but other than that, we are still basically EMT's. I understand with the NOCP they want everybody to be a level of paramedic...PCP, ACP, CCP. They stated that being called some type of paramedic would help alleviate the confusion for the public. To most, anyone working in an ambulance is a paramedic because they see that on TV. It doesn't matter if you are a EMR or a medic, you are referred to as a medic. I feel that it is misinforming the public when we call ourselves a paramedic. To most people in the general public, when they hear that you are a paramedic, they automatically assume that you are capable of performing all the skills that a "PARAMEDIC" (ACP or CCP) can. This, to me is very misleading. I talked to a PCP from Ontario (I won't state his name) about employment opportunities in Alberta and Saskatchewan. I was told by this person that Ontario has no BLS...they are ALL medics. Then I found out that he was a PCP. Is that misleading or what? Anyway, I feel better now that I have stated my point. I was just wondering if it was just me or if this bothers anyone else. Thanks for reading. :?

I didn't mean it that way dust. I totally agree with you that you can learn from seeing what others are doing. What I meant by not worrying about what others are doing was to make sure that you are doing your job to the best of your ability. I make sure that I do EVERYTHING that I possibly can for every pt that I come in contact with. I am not worried about picking apart what others do unless it is going to cause a negative effect for the patient. If it will harm them in any way, then yes, I speak up and make it a concern of mine. I have no problem telling my partner that we should get on the road. That he can do certain things in the back of the ambulance if we have had a prolonged on scene time. It is all too easy to lose track of time while on scene. I just feel that sometimes people worry too much about watching others to catch them in a fault than watching themselves and making sure they don't make the same mistakes. I am all for watching and learning from others. I spend a lot of time in the ER, OR and on the wards to better myself and my skills. I know I am not perfect and that is part of the reason that I do that and that I don't pick apart othes ways of doing things. Like it has already been pointed out, medics have the advantage of being able to do more things for a patient than I do. It makes sence that they would spend more time on scene if pt condition allows for it or if what they are going to do will make a huge difference in pt outcome especially if it will make that differnce immediately.

I am so tired of hearing arguments like these. Just everybody do THEIR own job and don't worry about what other people are doing. We have all been trained to do certain skills and as we all know each level of education is different and each teaches different skills. Yes, as a PCP, I probably don't spend as much time on scene as and ACP would. I have my assessments and treatments that I do, they have theirs. My partner and I have the same level of training. I was taught 3 yrs ago and he was taught 18 yrs ago. There is a difference there. I spend more time on scene than he does. Partly I suppose because I am still thinking some things through that he wouldn't have to but I also do more of an assessment on scene than he does. My transport times range between 35 minutes and 5 minutes. Mostly between 5 and 10minutes. If it is an emergency, I make the decision to load and go and do as much as possible in the ambulance. If I feel (after doing an assessment)that I have time to stay and play a little, I do. I do as much as possible in the comfort of the pt's home. That is my descision to make. I also do not take as long on scene as an ACP would because I am limited to what I can do for that pt. It is in their best interest for me to get them to the hospital where a doctor is because that is what they really need. An ACP can do more, give more drugs, and they need that time to do those things. As soon as we start getting the "extras" for drugs (which we can do in Alberta) I will probably start spending more time on scene as well. Provided it is in the pt's best interests. Basically what I am trying to say is don't worry about what other people are doing....worry about yourself. It is YOUR ass on the line if things go south and YOU were the one that spent too much time on scene. Use the education you have been given and do your job to the best of your ability.

ok. I will add my little missed "obvious" story. It makes me kinda laugh now when I think back to it. Call was to a pedestrian vs vehicle. First crew got on scene then police called stating there may be a second pt. My partner and I responded to that for back up. Getting on scene we were met by police who stated that no there was no second pt so we decided to help out the first crew. They had pt immobilzed and doing CPR. I got tunnel vision and went straight to the pt and first crew. I helped them get the pt into the ambulance. My partner drove for them and left me on scene to gather info and pt belongings etc. Police were telling me (while I was picking up shoes, etc) that the pt was standing in the middle of the street when he accidentally stepped into on coming traffic which happened to be a semi. (pt was drunk) as I am picking things off the ground, I found a pool of blood from pt's head. Beside it I found some white/grey mushy stuff. I thought to myself "is this grey matter? I have never seen grey matter....holy crap!!!" As I look around a little more, I notice a potatoe...then another one...I look up and there is a wagon full of spuds and some of them had fallen off the wagon. SOOOO, it wasn't grey matter after all....just mushed spud! I have never had tunnel vision like that before that and never since! How embarassing!! 8-[ :)/

Dust, I haven't known you long but have most definately develped a great deal of respect for you. (not to mention I was so thankful you didn't attack me on one of my posts!!haha) What you do and what you are about to do is amazing. You are a wonderful person for that. I do have sympathy towards the people of Iraq....they haven't a clue what is about to come their way!! Dust take care and know you have so many people thinking of you while you are going to be gone. I look forward to talking to you when you get back....maybe I can strike up a post that we can debate on! :x (probably not!!) And who knows...if you come to Canada (if it is in the west you move) Maybe we will meet on our adventures! Denise

PCP=Primary Care Paramedic Canada is trying to change the names to paramedic so everyone is a "level" of paramedics They took our old EMT and added a few things to it and changed the name to PCP. There is a lot more anatomy and physiology, meds, injections, and airway apparatuses that have been added to the EMT to make up the PCP

nsmedic393 perhaps I went about this in the wrong way. I by no means meant to single you out. I was just reading the posts and you were the first one that I saw saying that we shouldn't be able to do IV's. Perhaps that is my misconception because I have met a lot of Paramedics who think they are God's gift...AND NO I am not saying that ALL paramedics are like that because I have met a lot of paramedics who are awesome and want to help in anyway they can. They don't think they are are better than anyone else. Thank you for the opportunity to voice MY opinion and concerns. If Canada could get their shit together and make the NOCP enforce the 3 levels and not allow any changes to any of them without taking the next level, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. As far as you Nate, I think I don't want to even waste my time (or my breath considering I only have the one left that is in my lungs at the moment.) to argue with you. I know what I am ...I know what I have been educated to do. I will continue to do this and know that I am making a difference in my patients outcome. If I don't know 110%, I don't do it! Just incase you would like to know what I have been educated to do it is as follows: - cardiac monitoring II lead - IV administration - Defibrilation - D50W and oral glucose - multiple immobilization techniques and splinting including sager splints - injections (sub-Q and IM) - epi, glucagon, atrovent, salbutamol, asa, entonox, O2, nitro - combitubes and LMA's - pasg (mast pants) to name a few! I am finished with this topic. I never meant for it to become the way it has. I am going to accept that there are many many differences between here and the United States and I hope that all of you will as well. Just because something is different, doesn't make it wrong. Because someone is a paramedic and someone is a pcp doesn't make one better than the other. Take all Neesie

When I saw you replied Dust, I was a little scared!! lol Maybe my suggestion to anyone that wants to tell me that I can't do the things that I have been trained/educated to do is research and compare the courses! Take a look at the Alberta guidlines and course criteria. Look also at the Saskatchewan criteria. THEN if you must, you can debate that with me and tell me that I should not be allowed to do the things I can! Neesie

Well I suppose this will be the last that I say about this then. I am new here and didn't realize this topic has been discussed already. I would like to mention though that I have been "EDUCATED" in IV administrtation. I do believe that Canadian EMT/PCP is much different than the American EMT. We are educated in the complications that can occur, the treatments and the indications and contraindications involved. They don't just let anyone that wants to do an IV do one. Of course we have to be educated! It is okay that you don't agree with me. It is also okay that emt's in the states don't have the same training that I do as a pcp in Canada...and yes, PCP is just a fancy name for the old emt with a few additions to the education. If there are any Alberta EMTs out there that care to put their 2 cents worth...please feel free to back me up on this! Just one other question...do you believe that EMT's should not be allowed to administer D50W as well?

Hi nsmedic393. I was just reading some posts and came across one that you had put a little input into. The post was discussing giving EMT's or PCP's more skills such as 12 leads. I wanted to start a new post because I wasn't sure you would get this message otherwise. So, what one of the comments you made was that you didn't think that pcp's or emt's should be allowed to do IV's because there is really no need for them to start one UNLESS an ALS medic was with them as their partner. Well, just to let you know, I work for a strictly BLS service and we do IV's. Yes, there is a need for them even at our lowly level of EMT/PCP. We give IV's so we can counteract the effect of hypoglycemia. We give D50W. We use IVs when there is equal or greater than 500ml blood loss. We give IV's for people who are having cardiac problems and need nitro. We can't give nitro unless an IV has been initiated. People who have blunt trauma to the chest (ex:steering wheel in the chest )will get an IV. Somebody with a bilateral femur # gets an IV. Someone who has overdosed and will need an IV at the hosptial will get an IV by us en route. AND any other time that we think a pt may need an IV but it is not part of our protocols, we will call the hospital for approval to do an IV. So in conclusion, I am a huge advocate for EMT/PCP caregivers to be able to do an IV. You are right, it isn't hard to do one. We are very capable to do them. And there is a NEED for BLS to do IV's.

This year we are having a coloring contest in our local newspaper, 2 mock accidents involving EMS, police, rescue squad, and a hurse. We are also having a pancake breakfast, a BBQ and a draw for kids to be an EMT for a day. We take them along with us to the station, fire department, rescue station, police station and to the hospital. We have a t-shirt made up for them and we also take them for dinner. We usually pick them up at their school in the ambulance. It is great.

Welcome EMT Wolf. I agree with Dustdevil in the fact that you need to make sure that you REALLY want this and no more quitting for silly reasons. However, I do wish you all the luck. It sounds to me like you do want to persue a career as a medic and I hope you succeed. Make sure to put your nose to the grind and work as hard as you can. Be as dedicated as possible and then push to be even a little more dedicated. You are lucky that your medic school is only $1500-5000. Here in Canada, or atleast where I am from, you have to pay as little as $20,000.00 for a 2 year course! Consider yourself lucky! Good luck and I hope you succeed in whatever you decide to do. Neesie

I guess I can add mine now. We were on a call to a "general malaise". Got on scene and the person is lying flat on the floor and couldn't look much more dead. My partner ran downstairs to grab the AED. I started compressions. I am all alone with this dead person pushing on their chest when all of a sudden she opens her eyes and grabs my hands! :shock: I said without even thinking "holy shit don't do that!" I stopped compressions just as my partner comes upstairs. He asked why I was doing and howcome I wasn't doing compressions. He said is she dead? I said I DON'T KNOW!!! of course he thought I was off my rocker and gave me crap. I said fine watch this...I started compressions and she did the same thing. I don't think I have ever seen my partner look so freaked EVER!!! lol The woman died.