BEorP

Was I supposed to decompress on this scenario...I know I didn't.

What are the other possible scenarios?

Rather than worrying about the other possible scenarios, maybe you should just work on getting your standard trauma assessment down. It will be more or less the same approach regardless of the scenario. If you know other possible scenarios this may just end up confusing you if there is a slight variation from what you are expecting during the testing after walking in and thinking that you are doing a certain scenario you read about on here based on the dispatch info.

What about green? It's the international colour of medical. My services overalls are green and our safety tabards are bright yellow and green.

International colour of medical? I dunno, I don't see that a whole lot in North America but maybe it is the European and Australian colour of medical?

The same statistic goes for the need for reflective and fluorescent clothing. Puhleeze. I am not wearing that clown suit 5 days a week, in and out of hospitals, patients homes, nursing homes, restaurants, apartment and office buildings just because I occasionally work an MVA. That's what traffic vests are for. Too lazy or absent minded to put your vest on? You're fired. I am not a wrecker driver, and I refuse to dress like one. I am a medical professional and will strive to present and maintain that image.

I think it wouldn't hurt to be visible even when its just night and you're just getting out of your truck to go into someone's home for a call (who knows who is driving down the street and not paying attention). I didn't mean to suggest going all crazy with reflective, but even just "PARAMEDIC" on the back that will reflect might be good. Since you haven't got your way yet and EMT-Bs are still working on ambulances, this would also be a way to clearly identify one from the other from a distance without having different coloured uniforms.

Can you not go back you what you were making six figures doing, but just on a part time basis?

Love the job, hate the pay, it seems on the bus the same topics get played again and again; What was the dispatcher thinking, what was the patient thinking, where to get food, and how much the pay sucks for what we do.

Seriously, it ain't squid that makes the world go round.

We have a TON of people here from all walks of life, and experiences I was hoping to get some ideas flowing and maybe a few pearls of wisdom.

Of course I expect in the mix a lot of wiseass comments, putdowns, and outright insults from foks who just like to read their own posts and have nothing constructive to add... :roll:

But some real discussion would be nice.

Ok well I'm not entirely sure what you want us to discuss here but I will at least try to get it started. Keep in mind that this comes from my one course in business that I have taken in university. From your post it sounds like you want to be an entrepreneur to make money to supplement your income. Most of the time, you would be better off just working a normal job than hoping to make it big with your business. Entrepreneurs generally do not make loads of money, but rather do it for the freedom and sense of accomplishment that they get from it.

Looking specifically at your business (tactical oxygen wrenches for anyone who didn't know), has it been profitable yet?

If you want more money, why not go to university and get a better paying job that still allows you to work as an EMT on the side? Why not get into EMS management? If you are dead set on running a business, have you looking into franchises?

Speaking of coveralls, flight suit type coveralls are an attractive option for many reasons. Although, they do not immediately scream "medical" to the public, they are indeed functional (lots of custom pockets, very unrestrictive, easy on/easy off, as comfortable as scrubs), identifiable (nobody else is walking around in them), and unique (nothing like the cops or firemonkeys wear).

I believe in Sicko there were some either UK or France medics seen in the back of one of the shots and they appeared to be wearing a green version of what you describe. It sure would give us a distinctive look and I still think that it has a professional appearance.

One other thing of importance I think should be visibility (whether it come from colour, reflective, or both). At least in Ontario, most services have the construction worker style reflective vests to be worn on car accident scenes. I'm sure we all know how often this actually happens in most services. Of course the solution to this problem could be to just wear the damn vest, but I think a more practical solution would be to integrate something for visibility into the uniform.

nremtp, what business training you have? It's obvious that you have put a lot of thought into this and are an intelligent individual but I am just curious. Feel free to answer by PM if you don't want to post it here or just ignore it since it's none of my business (excuse the pun).

"Private ambulance companies put profit first, patients second, and employees last"

This is a blatant lie! Not all companies are like this.

I'm not saying that all private companies don't care about their patients and employees, but isn't the whole point of a business (whether ambulance or other) to provide a good or service with the intention of making a profit? I think they even if patients and employees are treated well there will still be divided loyalties between the service that is provided and the profits that need to be made to keep the company running.

Congratulations!

Could SOMEBODY please tell me what "bigeminy" is, I'm dying from the suspense?

I believe it is when every normal beat is followed by a PVC.

Perhaps EMS will be paid more if we start requiring associate's or bachelor's degrees for any level of prehospital care provider. But I wouldn't say it is a cause and effect situation at all.

I think I would disagree with you on this.

You make a good point with your comparison to teachers. But is it really possible to raise a family on minimum wage and provide them a good life? I have heard about American teachers being poorly paid, but are we talking minimum wage? The "doing what you love" argument is a fair one, but where do you draw the line? At what point do you finally say that it is not enough money and you need to do something else? (I guess for volunteers there is no line, but I mean for people who are trying to live off EMS.)

I'm making this comment without knowing the details of the event, but from ever major even that I have worked medical at there are many more security guards than medical staff. The medical staff usually are stationed at certain areas and because security is everywhere, they call us on the radio if we are needed.

If your event could run similar to this then there would be no need for all the security guards to be EMTs. Security and medical are very different, but I think Wendy already pretty much gave the good reasons.

Seems like we need an FAQ for new members that just says, "It all comes down to education."

EMS is relatively new. Nurses and Docs have been around as long as disease itself. I think the entire healthcare system doesn't yet know what to do with us. There are idiots on ambulances, and then there are medics that I talk to before making an appointment with my Doctor.

In Paramedic school we learn med math and how to set up drips, and we take the same pharmacology class required by the nursing program at my school. I work in an ER and have tought nurses how to set up nebulizers and how to work a stopcock. I have even helped ICU nurses figure med doses. Yet I still make 1/3 what they make. I'm not bitter about it and I don't think I'm better or smarter than all nurses. I just understand that in a hospital setting I"m not utilized to my full potential because healthcare doesn't know what i'm capable of.

How much education do you have compared to the nurse?

Rid, that is a very interesting way to look at the topic. Although I said that I would not work for minimum wage as an EMT, I can't justify why they deserve much more than that. I generally support people being paid what they are worth (rather that getting paid a higher wage due to a government minimum or a strong union). With the very short time it takes to become an EMT, it would be difficult to justify getting paid much more than minimum wage. I look forward to hearing other opinions on this.

ACLS isn't a joke where providing care is concerned: a BLS truck can not push drugs except for O2 and D50, and use an AED. You wouldn't send those untrained for ALS out on CP or difficulty breathing calls.

I'm not sure what exactly you're saying here, but I personally wouldn't send any EMT-B or I out on a chest pain or shortness of breath call. If ACLS is not a joke when it comes to providing care, can you please tell me how it allows you to provide a higher level of care to your patients? (Maybe this is not rhetorical, I am not familiar with your scope of practice as an EMT-I.)

The fact remains: certification and licensure are all we have, unless you have a better plan for the whole EMS world, smart-guy.

You would seem much more intelligent if you took some time to read the forum before making an attempt to rip into Dust. There have been ideas on improving EMS in many different threads. Most of these centre around education (which no, does not mean a bunch of weekend courses).

Thank you to everyone for the replies in this thread. There has been a lot of good information discussed. It seems as though most people say they would not work for minimum wage as an EMT-B and those who would are only doing so because in their situation it is a necessary stepping stone before moving to EMT-P.

Maybe, but it could also make the problem worse. Hard to say based on the American economy.

In theory Medicare is somewhat universal health care for disabled, elderly and other circumstance patients.

However this has been one of the biggest, if not the biggest problems with health care money since the mid 90's when the gov. required providers to accept Medicare assignment.

It's only gotten worse since then all across the board.

Health care in America is a weird animal for sure.

I'm not very familiar with the American system, but if implementing government health care and running it well is too challenging, maybe it would be possible to at least have ambulance services run by some level of government and paid for by taxes (rather than trying to have publicly funded healthcare totally). I'm assuming that if you call the police or the fire department for help from either of then that you don't end up with a bill. Why should it be any different than an ambulance? I think if we start going off with that discussion we would end up with talk about whether EMS is an essential service (as I believe was going on in a recent thread).

It doesn't seem like there are any magical fixes.

In Ontario, you need to be an A-EMCA (Paramedic) to work on an ambulance. RNs are now allowed to challenge this certification but they do still need to complete a preceptorship first I believe.

So to answer your question, no we do not have nurses on ambulances in Ontario.

I can remember just a few years ago that i went to work for 5.55 and hour on a 16 hour truck. Ahhhh memories.

Can you explain a little why you were willing to work for this? Surely there were higher paying jobs available outside of EMS.

As stated many times before on here: emt basics are a dime a dozen and the certification is the MINIMUM requirement to drive an ambulance in a EMS system. GO straight away to PARAMEDIC school asap.

Somedic sends.

I know that that has been stated many times on here. I'm not asking why EMT-Bs can only make minimum age here, but rather if you would have been willing to work for it when you were an EMT-B.

Are you just saying that you would go right to EMT-P if you could only get paid minimum wage as an EMT-B? And what if you were required to have EMT-B experience before doing this?

So it seems like most of the replies to the initial question of "Would you work for minimum wage in EMS?" have been "no."

For those of you who wouldn't, would that mean that you would not have gotten into EMS if in your area you could only get minimum wage as an EMT-B? Would you move to a different area where you could make more? Would you just go right to EMT-P?

We have to raise the amount of money that Ambulances make.

Not just allow them to bill more, but actually increase the amount that they are paid.

I believe the avg. collection rate nationally is right around 50%, a little above or a little below I don't remember.

...

Also let's look at your teaching money for a moment. Whoever you are teaching for and paying you (I assume either a company or a service or something) collects the money at 100% and then pays you.

I wonder if you would be making twice the min. wage in the U.S. if whoever you were working for was only collecting from 50% of the people in class and then only getting 50% from the people that pay?

I'm not saying either way, I'm just wondering aloud.

It sounds like a valid point that maybe ambulance services can't actuallty affoard to pay their employees a good wage although I am really not familiar enough with the American system to be able to comment much on what you have said. One thing that I would say is that this seems to be a problem that could be solved with universal heathcare.

Any reputable school here, requires minimum 6 months field experience as an EMT-B, before applying to the school.

Fair enough. So why get into EMS at all then? Nursing, medicine, respiratory therapy, and the list could go on and on with health professions that will pay better and offer better careers. Were you fully aware of what to expect in terms of pay when you first registered for your EMT-B course?

I'm not trying to pick on you or ask rhetorical questions, but if I were going to be making minimum wage or just slightly above it I would not even consider EMS as a career. I'm really trying to understand the mindset of those entering EMS in this situation.

Thanks for your comments, Rid, but I was more looking to hear why anyone would work for such a low wage when they could find other jobs that would pay better or as well without the shift work and stress on your body. Any thoughts on that?

tskstorm, you provided some good information. I don't know if I agree with you in that you "Gotta start at the bottom to get to the top" though. As far as I know, there is nothing (except maybe money and confidence) to prevent someone from getting their EMT-B cert and going right to EMT-P. And of course we can look at health professions where emerg physicians never started as ER techs but we've had discussions on that before.