Savoy6

Here, Here. Well said

I think you meant EFMB

you may have missed my point(sarcasm) about the 5k. In EMS speed is good, but strength and endurance is better. Give me a St Bernard, not a whippet or greyhound. We need to not only get there but also get them out. I'm glad we have folks like you to respond in those areas. It is not a one size fits all type response

I can't believe this has gone on for 5 pages. Who's minding the asylum?(Note-sarcasm)

Let the abuse begin (still a rookie? wow, 34 years )

Golly, my first 18 years as a medic we took state written boards every three years. A few years before we stopped that we also had to take the practical for recert. Thank God we stopped that tom-foolery.

QA/QI programs should be used by employers to hone skills.

seems to be the policy of alot of sites not to do so...Concord or Bust pt.II comming 10/21

We offer it if we have the sufficient resources, mainly evaluators, and can get it done in a timely fashion. Not bad if available. Good Luck.

Wow, 950mi round trip from the Philly area and back. My friend and I spent more time driving back and forth then actual time in Concord for the exam. The fire acadamy, lodging and entire staff was great just waiting now for test results. I think I messed up one station but if thats it 11/12 isn't terrible.

That's dedication. 950 mile round trip. What, no same day retest available. For that kind of drive, would have been nice.

ASHI is a reputable source for BCLS and ACLS. I've reviewed and have had contact with them. AHA provides the science that is used. Some states mandate acutal group's merit badges. other require compliance to standards or "ACLS". AHA does not own the proprietary rights to "ACLS". Give ASHI a good look. Your service medical director or state EMS office may trump everything other than AHA. But again, I may be wrong

NR Tests have been around over 30 years for the EMT. took mine in 1975. I "think" they started EMT-P in 1979, I might be off by a year or 2. Go to www.nremt.org lots of info there.

As far as the snake bite and obscure questions-

1. For me, being an EMT has taken me to many parts of the globe; jungle, desert, forests, Alaska in February, North South, East and West. MY first official EMT course for NREMT cert was in Mississippi, "30 something years ago". The nurse teaching didn't think we needed frost bite. I've frozen my rear off on the flightline in Biloxi unloading aircaft. You never know what or when you need this. Granted some may seem "stupid" but you may see it again.

2. Remember, this is set up for world wide testing. With DOD using NREMT, it's global

3. The ?'s are randomly pulled from thousands of EMT questions, based on YOUR ability. It's adaptive to only YOUR response.

Just my 2 cents. Or as a student wrote one time "my too senses"

Your score? YOU PASSED

Congrats to all. Some advice, forget, the numbers. Don't sweat the number of the questions. It varies from person to person. Pass fail is not tied to a number. Concentrate on the content.

I hear stories everyday, some are outright funny. once we get a couple of years under ur belt, the comfort level will increase.

This is like the #1 EMT-B graduate question now, right up there with "Which private ambulance companies are hiring?" (answer- all of them).

Just take the freaking test and stop agonizing over how many questions you get.

Well stated. If as much energy was put into practice and studying...

Everybody wants the easy way

www.nemsed.org.

Shoulda stayed away from the farm animals with the clap.

Sheep lie. Are the testicles in pain his? Just wondering.

Any sign of a bite, such as being in outhouse and something wanted huevos rancheros? AKA spider bite, any contact with a foreign substance to his area of complaint. Recent vasectomy?

You know it sounds funny until it's your pain

Well I will give you a quick .02 worth.

Self-Defense in EMS is different than in any other field. Wherever you train think of 4 things to train for

1) The battle of your mind (when can I? Will I get in trouble? etc.?) Officers have extensive training in this area.

2) The actual physical battle. I am not going to start a debate of what system works best, but you better train in somethign that has been "pressure tested".

3) The battle of the media. (Headline reads :Paramedic beats up drunk patient) This it what makes EMS different from any other group.

4) The courtroom battle. If you don't follow local and/or Federal law you may find yourself on the losing end.

If you don't train in all 4 areas you are setting up yourself for failure.

I have taught hundreds of EMS providers DT4EMS. Based strictly from the EMS perspective. Not as a police officer or a martial artist (although I have a background in both).

We use stress scenario training to help the EMS provider recognize limitations and don't blow smoke. The job of the EMS provider is to provide care. Training in techniques where you expect "pain" to cause a person to stop will not always be effective. Remember the people that assault EMS usually fall under one of the 5 D's

Drunk, Drugged, Diabetic, Deranged and someone really amped at a Domestic.

The best tool you have in any situation is your mind. Situational awareness is the absolute best thing you can do. Knowing when things are starting to get bad, having a code word or phrase between you and your partner and get out.

Preparation is not paranoia

Stay Safe.

Kip Teitsort

Well put bruddah. Another thing to put between you and the assailant is DISTANCE. But hey, cowards RUN in my family

PBZ....

Believe it or not, it's not unusual for states who are new at administering the NR Exam to have VERY LOW pass rates the first time around. As an instructor I can tell you that 80% of what I teach in the classroom is how to pass the test... not specifics, but I teach my students what areas will be emphasized, and exactly what will be expected of them in the Practical testing station(s).... Sadly you have to learn to teach the test... As we've discussed here NUMEROUS times (just do a search for NR Testing).... it's not adequate or even fair to our students to teach just the test, but for those who have just come out of State Testing, it takes a while to learn how to teach students to pass the NR exam... it is a tricky little exam, and considering that most of our students have been out of the traditional classroom for quite sometime, it's difficult to learn how to take an exam that you have to second guess yourself on...

I hope that made sense.. I'm tired... PM me if you need any clarification.

Hi Jo, 80% teaching the test leave 20% information.

In EMS education we cannot "teach the test" anymore.The student's test will be tailored to THEM by the computer algorithm. WE as an industry should be teaching the NSC and what they need to deliver patient care.

If a pass rate suddenly drops, look at the test methods you use, how you teach, whay type of test questions you use. Remember, there are no more multiple question scenario on CAT, the student can't go back and time is not a factor like it was.

We are seeing a state pass rate that is slightly higher than last year. Now that is for all attempts and only 4 months of data. At our last conference here, most instructors said the pass rate was higher for their class. Once said it dropped drastically. That instructor went on to explain several institutional problems that I would say caused that drop, not the CAT test.

4 months is new. You'll never be able to teach the test, use test questions that are mutliple choice and increase your difficulty. if yor unit exams are shooting low, you'll miss that tareget. Raise the bar, challenge the student.

It is not an instructors job to pass all students. it's our job to produce patient care providers. Not everyone can pass.

BTW, not picking on you. But you used a satement I hear many times. You know how to reach me.

pardon the spelling errors, early and my cup of Joe is empty

myself being a EMT-I, would have to agree that if the medic had time to start the the IV, check the drug, and tell the basic what to do...he should've done it himself, and for the basic following these orders could have brought on serious consequences, I myself would not have done it...it is out of my scope of practice. And as far as burying the truth in the paperwork...we all know what could happen if a lawyer got ahold of this in court and both individuals came under fire.

PETA and The ASPCA(RSCPCA for our mates in the UK). This dead horse has been kicked enough

myself being a EMT-I, would have to agree that if the medic had time to start the the IV, check the drug, and tell the basic what to do...he should've done it himself, and for the basic following these orders could have brought on serious consequences, I myself would not have done it...it is out of my scope of practice. And as far as burying the truth in the paperwork...we all know what could happen if a lawyer got ahold of this in court and both individuals came under fire.

PETA and The ASPCA(RSCPCA for our mates in the UK). This dead horse has been kicked enough

Here, the scope says that a basic can administer nitro if there is medical direction to do so. Since a medic can give that direction, the previous case was totally fine here.

A medic giving medical direction? HMM? Usually a doc, or base station nurse. Of course in my corner of the world EMT-B's can give epi pens(first aid skill under law) assist with nitro, and can do blood glucose analysis. IF the protocols allow it. Paramedics cannot allow an EMT-B to do skills above the scope unless they are in clinicals, see below.

PUSHING DRUGS? Unless they are a medic student in a clinical setting with a preceptor, a no-no. As Joe Friday said, "that's when I go to work". In the vernacular, a medic is a paramedic. I know from personal experience a medic in the military is a generic term, but not here.

I know there are those emotionally charged times that the defense is, "the patient needed it". My counter is, "yes, from a licensed provider".

That's why we have levels! DUH!

Eight pages on this topic?? Legally-wrong, don't try to rationalize this behavior. Condoning this maverick bahavior is what keeps EMS from being accepted as a profession. Go ahead, attack me. I DON"T CARE> I deal with this every day.

What sounds good in a forum will not stand up in an administrative hearing. Orders are meant to be followed. "laws are meant to be broken" is a lame ass statement so old, most here weren't born the first time I heard it in EMS. Total disregard for rules sounds sexy and heroic. There is a fine line between hero and fool.

Here's an order that crew should follow, "hey, I wanted large fries with that big mac".

I am disgusted with anyone supporting that behavior, but am not shocked by it. just when I thought it was safe to come back to the forums...

Illinois wants to have their own test for one simple reason and that is money! The politicans want more money to come to the State.

That's an interesting view. Writing a test is an expensive and time intensive process, if done correctly. If the test is compromised, like that won't happen, you lose money. lose money? Yep, gotta re-write the thing. Validation is expensive too and so is defending the exam. A discrimination lawsuit or an ADA challenge gets very expensive.

They get hung up on that stupid coral snake thing. The fire chief and others are missing the point. Hemotoxin vs. neurotoxin. Oh yeah, we no longer teach fractures, cardiac anatomy, differences of CHF and pulmonary edema, diabetic emergencies...

We are caught up in the cultural "get by cheap" mentality. Funny, how much do fire trucks cost?? Are they used to capacity on a daily basis?? How many of a departments calls are EMS? Over 80% or more. FD wants all the marbles, but not the expense. Can't have it both ways.

I'm not anti Fire Service. I dedicated more than 10 years of my life to the Fire Service. I am anti STUPID. And stupid wears many uniforms.

Illinois is in trouble. It will cost them more money in the long run to develop their own test. The media in Illinois is not getting both sides, they are feeding in to the Chiefs, who may have a valid point about being excluded.

Rhetoric, emotionally charged statements and "bumper sticker" logic works with a stupid media an uninformed public.

Bottom line- Read the EMS Agenda for the Future and the EMS Education Agenda for the Future both from NHTSA. Then see who is taking a big step backwards.

If you need accommodations for the exam,go to www.nremt.org, read their policy, call the Registry and ask for "Jean". She'll handle it for you.

You'll find that many of us old folks in EMS, studies show, are ADD or ADHD. In the early '60's it wasn't treated, just told to study harder. ADD/ADHD can't "study harder"

My two cents worth.

Of course a test with 100% pass is questionable too. Been there, saw it first hand. Some of you know what I mean.

How much is a state test going to cost to implement? I read the article and responded to the newspaper. Test compromise, test security, validation... Costly for an agency. One good law suit or a test compromise, and start from scratch. Good luck.

Of course some states hire out the process to inexperienced companies. That's a winning combination. Everyone is trying to get in on it. I guess the EMS Education Agenda for the Future and the EMS Agenda for the Future are foreign to these folks.

A single national test is necessary. one size can fit all. Coral snakes?? gee, chief. I'd like my guys to know what hemotoxins cause and neuro toxins cause. people keep all kinds of exotic animals around, maybe not in his town. EMS professionals need a rounded base of knowledge.

What if ?- his department deploys folks to the south for a disaster. Guess what you find, coral snakes, fire ants, armadillos, lions, tigers and bears, oh my!! Plus sand. A good place to bury your head.

In my "official" civilian EMT course in Mississippi in 1975, the nurse teaching didn't teach frostbite or hypothermia, she said we'd never see it. Gosh, those nights on the flight line in Biloxi off loading patients from aircraft, in the wind and cold always made me remember that. So did the snowstorm in 1977 that caused us to close the firing range.Or the week in January I spent on the Black Sea. Sorry, I digress.

Unfortunately when a fire chief sticks his head up like this, he should be shot at. It makes it look like a fire service against the rest of EMS situation. Maybe the situation is isolated to him, but it is becoming a problem in other parts of the country too. Not all of the Fire Service is like that. Soo, let's focus on him.

Maybe he should hire from outside his ranks.For many years the fire department I served with did just that. they now have some home grown medics, but for some time they hired from out of town. Being an out-of-towner has it's own inherent problems too.

Paramedics aren't, and thank God should not be, a dime a dozen. Dilution is not the solution(Catchy, huh?)

There's the old technician vs clinician problem. Here I'm mainly speaking of Paramedic education, not paramedic training. When we still keep it simple, the product will be stupid, we'll never be a profession.

OK, I'll go be a hermit again and hibernate.

Lastly, this is a basic 'tenet' of medicine, something that should not be new to all but the most newest of 'rookies'

What basic tenet are you refering too? let it go, you can't stop yourself. Go back to you playground and share these antics with the other boys and girls. It is very easy for this holier than thou attitude that is prevelant on this site. preach to someone else,not to me. I do not need a lesson from you.

I guess I am a heretic. Go and sin some more.

Please do not reply. I will not be here.

I'm looking for a site that when opinions are asked for they will be respected. This bovine scatology is good for rookies and the others on this site that all refer to as wankers. i myself like to use that term to describe this in the same way as our British cousins.