THE_DITCH_DOCTOR

Also on a side note I have firend who is an EMTB is an alchoholic as well as substance abuser, but until I can find hard evidence to prove the substance abuse theres really nothing for me to report, although said EMTB supposedly used purex to purify the urine during a drug test. Its a tough situation, not exactly sure, but one day eithe she'll end up taking her own life or she'll get caught doing it and lose everything.

-alco

By the way how is your "friend" doing with her ETOH abuse issues?

Suspend him, notify the state licensing or certifying board and local prosecutor. If found guilty then fire his sorry butt. I have no sympathy for thieves or addicts. They in no way deserve to be treated with kid gloves or be allowed to be put into a position of responsibility or where they could potentially easily feed their addiction. I don't believe "rehab" works for most people.

You hear "Truckin'" by the Grateful Dead coming over the radio, and the dispatch center breaks in, demands the broadcasting vehicle to ID themselves, and the reply comes back, "Sorry Dispatch, 84-XX with a stuck mike". It's only funny if you happen to realize that the unit in question (not ID'ed for security reasons) is involved in drug interdiction for the county sheriff's department.

Evan Bayh! About damn time we have another president from Indiana.

2. You watched the Pound Puppies.

7. You know that "WOAH" comes from Joey on Blossom

8. Two words: Hammer Pants!

9. If you ever watched "Fraggle Rock"

11. You can sing the entire theme song to "Duck Tales" (Woo ooh!)

12. It was actually worth getting up early on a Saturday to watch cartoons.

14. You saw the original "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" on the big screen...and still know the turtles names.

15. You got super-excited when it was Oregon Trail day in computer class at school.

22. You know the profound meaning of "WAX ON, WAX OFF"

25. You can remember what Michael Jackson looked like before his nose fell off and his cheeks shifted.

26. You have ever pondered why Smurfette was the only female smurf.

27. You took plastic lunch boxes to school... and traded Garbage Pail kids in the schoolyard.

28. You remember the CRAZE, then the BANNING of slap bracelets.

29. You still get the urge to say “NOT†after every sentence.

36. You remember "I've fallen and I can't get up"

37. You remember going to the skating rink before there were inline skates.

38. You ever got seriously injured on a Slip and Slide.

41. You've gone through this nodding your head in agreement.

43. "Don't worry, be happy"

51. You remember Alf, the lil furry brown alien from Melmac.

54. You know all the words to Bon Jovi - SHOT THROUGH THE HEART.

55. You just sang those words to yourself.

56. You remember watching Magic vs. Bird.

66. You're still singing shot through the heart in your head, aren't you?

Dear Christ.....I'm 24 and I feel old.

DITCH,

I do remember him and, ironically enough, he is now a Boone County Deputy. LOL. But I remember that day.

Yet another reason I'm glad I got away from that jurisdiction.

Here's an interesting point- why is that we are so concerned about the loss of some punk 17 y/o who wrapped his supped up Mazda Miata around a tree while doing 110 mph trying act like he's something out of the fast and the furious and we hear the cries to stop teens from driving, but the loss of a 40 y/o who was driving unsafely (although not necessarily to the same degree, but since when did the small things like degree of the offense ever stop from me from pointing out hypocrisy) doesn't provoke the same outcry to put speed limiters on cars or mandate other safety features that could potentially save lives? I do agree that 18 is a suitable driving age, but I don't view the loss of a teenager or even of a carload of them as being any more of loss than the death of a 35 or 40 y/o who has a family, a job and contributes in some meaningful manner to society.

This has been a topic of discussion in one of my classes at school- whether the elderly (due to normal decline in vision and response times, as well as various pathological processes) should be allowed to continue to drive. The reason behind this is on of the public safety golf carts on campus was struck by an elderly driver (luckily no one was hurt in the low-speed collision), who claimed that he did not see the BRIGHT WHITE golf cart with the FLASHING AMBER LIGHT on top of it in the intersection which is marked with two large "PEDESTRIAN CROSSING" signs, each with a FLASHING CAUTION LIGHT. This happened in the middle of the day, but this elderly gentleman apparently didn't realize they were there until he heard the "THUD" of the collision.

I recall reading somewhere that while teenagers are more likely to kill themselves, or people in the same vehicle with them, that the elderly kill nearly as many people, most often pedestrians and persons in other vehicles. I'll try to find the article to back this up.

Should people have their licenses restricted or revoked upon reaching a certain age? Should more frequent health checkups (vision tests specifically) be required? Should special exemption to continue to drive past the age of 65 be required?

And, yes, I know this type of legislation would never get passed because of the legislative clout of organizations such as the AARP.

Texas doesn't do automatic background checks on medics or nurses for licensure. But if you admit to ANY criminal background on your application, even simple misdemeanors, then they craw up your ass with a microscope and hold up your application sometimes for months.

As they should.

Boy, this is gonna make me look like some random guy trying to get stuff n pretending to be an EMT with this post and the other about car ID's.

Actually no, it makes you look like a "Ricky Rescue" who is only out for glory.

Just heard on the radio station here during a football game:

"That big ol' boy is good at finding holes and filling them up quick."

I damn near puked I was laughing so hard.....

And as for cursing... Have you ever been in the service? Many very intelligent people join our armed forces and they "curse like a sailor".

Son of a b--ch, you're definitely total f--king right, a--hat (I don't really thinking you're an a--hat, more of a bastard (KIDDING!))

Maybe MizzouMedic will remember this, but Boone County Missouri Station #1 had a very, uh, effeminate firefighter (he sounded like every stereotype of a gay man you can think of- imagine Big Gay Al from South Park) and he was driving the engine to a fire on Rainbow Trout Drive. He marks on scene with the following, "Dispatch, This is Engine 1, establishing Rainbow Command!"

I was basing it off the requirements to gain entrance to medical school or PA school, because of the greater similarity of paramedicine to work as a PA or MD, than to the work of an RN.

I've not seen a nursing school that requires that much chemistry or physics for a BSN, but then again I'm only familiar with the requirements of two schools.

Ditch,

I have been following this thread carefully for the past few weeks, there are several things that need to be addressed.

1. Yes we know you want to weed and wash out people from these programs that you dont see fit. Use another point to back-up your arguement to make it better.

I just think we should hold our students to the same standard that medical students, nursing students, respiratory students, radiology tech students and even medical residents are held to. Either make the grade or find another line of work.

2. You have discussed this subject in several different threads. Everyone has stated their opinion and will hold on to their beliefs. I believe it is time to let this thread die of natural causes. No sense in arguing the same points over and over again.

Nothing wrong with spirited debate, because we might actually come across ideas that work better than what you or I hold to be correct (see below).

3. I have read your profile, and while you have alot of credentials at your young age, I find it hard to believe. Not calling you a liar, but just amazed at what you have accomplished.

I don't have that many credentials for my age- I know a 22 y/o with more credentials than I hold. It's just that I choose to broadly apply what I have learned.

I also find it odd that while you no longer work in the EMS field, and from what i have understood, you do not wish to work in EMS again, you are sitting here saying what we should and should not do when you are not a provider yourself. As I said before if you want improvements you must be willing to work for it. It is one thing to type it up, it is completely another to actually do it.

When did I ever say I would never be involved with EMS again? I said I would never do it as a paid person again for a career. Big difference. I'm not running as a volunteer at the moment because I don't have the free time to do so between work, school, getting ready for the arrival of my daughter, etc. Trust me, I'm probably more dedicated to EMS than 95% of the people out there, but excuse me for having bigger aspirations and wishing to be in a position where I will have the disposable income to help support whatever volunteer agency I wind up with.

4. Also, your pushy tone does not help you, it only hinders you, by causing people to automatically tune out on what you have to say, even if it is a good idea. Set a lighter tone and people would be more willing to hear you out.

It's funny, the only people who "tune out" are those who don't agree with me, and those whom I have taken to task for being wrong, immature or grossly unprofessional. It's funny that someone who just arrived at this site deems himself worthy of trying to tell me how to conduct myself on this site- come see how I am in the chatroom, I'm far from a hardass once you get to know me. Personally if you think what I say on here, or whether I bother most people with my bluntness concerns me in the slightest, you need to step back and seriously reexamine things. Yes, I speak my mind and I don't coddle people, and if you don't like it, then ignore me.

5. Most basics lack the money to go to school on their own and some services are VERY selective on who they send to school based on availability of funds, and who Medical Director thinks is the best candidate. It is also hard due to many of them having families that cannot afford the time from home or work. The current pay scale of the majority of providers is what keeps us back. If there were ways to increase the pay and increase benefits I am sure you would find more basics and intermediates willing to go to school for a 4 year degree.

I don't buy that argument about not having the money to get the training. Two words: student loans. If you're taking your course through a college, you should not have any problem getting one.

Like I said before (and I know how you hate it when I repeat myself, so like I said before), things won't change until we change first. I hate to use nursing as an example, because nursing and EMS are not as similar as most think, but nurses did not start being well paid until after they began increasing their standards through education. Things just don't work the way you apparently believe they do.

6. As for experience, my state once had a madatory 5 years of street experience before being eligible to apply for paramedic courses, and even at that, there was an entrance exam that you must pass. Honestly I think to bring this practice back would be beneficial in getting our EMTs ready for ALS skills after they have finished their EMT-B or EMT-I education. In my personal opinion we should be combining education and experience to bring out the best providers.

I wholeheartedly agree with that statement.

Pretty much everyone here has agreed with the creation of strong educational standards. But, as I have mentioned before, why don't we present these 'improved standards' on the forum for folks to look over and comment on rather than simply making the blanket statement 'We need increased educational standards!' and not providing a baseline to work from. Maybe some folk's programs already cover all you think needs to be covered and actually can do it in less than two full years.

Let's look over the pros and cons first of what topics and standards should be considered for the program first, rather then assume that anyone who isn't on your 'Two Years or Else' bandwagon has less than the patient's utmost welfare at heart.

& FWIW: I, for one, prefer to be talked with and to, not talked down to. And my 'manner of sense' is just fine, thank you kindly for asking.

I'm not saying that you and others don't have patients' best interest at heart- most do. However, I am looking at the best interests of the patients and our own best interests as a career field. We need to be more than a voc-tech course or a community college learner's permit career. Paramedics should be educated to the minimum (eventually) of a bachelor's degree (an associate's degree is a start for now).

I'm all for increasing requirements- more stringent testing, stiffer entrance requirements, higher continuing education requirements, increased numbers of people washed out of programs because they aren't performing satisfactorily, etc. But these need to be combined with increases in education, otherwise all of our efforts will go unrecognized.

The only way to raise pay is to increase the demand- until people are willing to refuse to work for peanuts, don't expect filet mignon anytime soon. A unified front is required and that is something that we have yet to present on any large scale.

Since you asked for some idea of what I mean when I say increased educational requirements:

GENERAL EDUCATIONAL RECOMMENDATIONS- ALL TO BE COMPLETED PRIOR TO ENROLLMENT IN PRECLINICAL OR CLINCAL COURSES

-Biology (w/ labs) 8 sem hrs (general biology and microbiology)

-General chemistry (w/ lab) 8 sem hrs

-Organic chemistry (w/ lab) 8 sem hrs

-Biochemistry (lab optional) 3-4 sem hrs

-Human A+P (w/ lab) 8 sem hrs

-Pathophysiology 2-3 sem hrs

-English composition 3 sem hrs

-Public speaking 3 sem hrs

-General psychology 3 sem hrs

-Physics (w/ labs) 8 sem hrs

I'll post my ideas on preclinical and clinical education requirements later. I have errands to run at the moment.

I'm just glad to see that the majority of people have some manner of sense about them and see that at least part of the solution lays in increasing the educational standards. The rest of you, I only ask that you stay out of our way while we try to get something positive done.

*CLEARS THROAT*

Maintaining the status quo is not going to remedy the "shortage" we are currently experiencing and therefore the argument about compounding a supposed shortage is a moot point because as was said in one of my previous posts is that if you concern is simply to keep warm bodies on the rigs, expect to see a steady number (or God forbid an increase) of cold bodies coming out of them when they get to the hospital.

As I've said before, we don't have a shortage of EMT's and paramedics- we have a shortage of GOOD EMT's and paramedics. When I was a shift supervisor we had no problem finding people who had their certifications and a pulse (all that is required in many places to work as an EMT), but finding people who I was willing to send out in good faith to treat the public and potentially my family and friends was exceedingly difficult.

Maintaining the status quo is not going to remedy the "shortage" we are currently experiencing and therefore the argument about compounding a supposed shortage is a moot point because as was said in one of my previous posts is that if you concern is simply to keep warm bodies on the rigs, expect to see a steady number (or God forbid an increase) of cold bodies coming out of them when they get to the hospital.

Personally I'm not advocating for a 2yr associate's program (that's fine in the meantime) but rather for a 4 year broad based education for paramedic similar to what yields a BSN.

What is angiotensin? :oops:

This should give you some idea:

http://www.auburn.edu/academic/classes/zy/...lute/sld026.htm

http://www.auburn.edu/academic/classes/zy/...lute/sld027.htm

Basically it effects water and electrolyte balance in the plasma and urine, as well as stimulating other pathways that play a large role in fluid balance and blood chemistry and also in blood pressure regulation.

I agree with you that as a paramedic there should be more stringent requirements. At least two yrs on the street as a basic, and a two yr program to become a paramedic.

My point about this thread becoming a hate fest, were some of the comments from other people. I got my medic education after a yr in school, and years worth of weekends away from my family. Does this make me a good/great paramedic, far from it, but don't make me out to be some vo-ed trained medic, who doesn't have any education.

And you should be rightfully proud of what you have accomplished, but I hope that you would stand with us in an attempt to raise the bar even further. If we don't try to advance, we don't even stay where we are. It's a theory in evolution that is called the Red Queen theory, that you have to run in place as fast as you can just to stay where you are. It applies in biology, it applies in Wonderland, and it certainly applies in medicine.

No, it hasn't. It's always been a thread regarding whether you think we should stay as the voc-tech trained cot jockies everyone thinks we are and with an open door policy to people entering the field just wanting to get their jollies off, or do you think we should require people to be able to have a lot more depth in their education and a little more stringent requirements before allowing any yahoo off the street to earn his credentials.

We can't do anything about people who are already certed, but we can do something about those who are coming into the field and that is exactly our intention. Lead, follow or step aside.

SWING AND A MISS!

It's not that we want to do away with basic EMT's....it's that we want you to be better educated AS a basic EMT.

Just FWIW: Johns Hopkins turns out a very adequate Master MD in 6 years [at least they used to a few years ago when I was looking at that]. They tend to cut the 'extra stuff' - like the extra credits most programs require in fine arts.

What's a "Master MD"? Do you mean a physician who holds both a doctorate and a master's degree completed at the same time? There are lots of medical schools (nearly all of the older schools) that offer MD/MS, MD/PhD, MD/MBA, MD/etc combination courses in 6-7 years. It's usually referred to as a "medical scientist training program". They cut out all the "fine arts" (again assuming you mean liberal arts education) because that's never a part of medical school to begin with. You have to have the basic education (including some exposure to a broad background in most cases) to gain admission to medical school in the first place, so the comparison of the training an MD goes through, even with the additional research work required for a MD/MS or MD/PhD combo, to the increased educational requirements we are suggesting for medics is not an adequate one, at least not in the way you are implying. Rid simply meant it in the sense that just because we can crank out an MD in two years doesn't mean that it's a good idea. Just as cranking out undereducated EMT's and paramedics after 150hrs and 1 year respectively is not a truly appropriate course of action. I hope you did learn a lot from your training, at least for your patients' sake, and I hope that you don't take it that we are maligning everyone for the sad state of EMS education simply because we are not. We are attempting to improve the quality of care and improve the quality of the EMT's. You can't write the educational requirements with an eye to the best and brightest in the field- you make the courses difficult and challenging so that you weed out the idiots, the wannabes, the thrillseekers. Seperating the wheat from the chaf is all we are talking about. Nothing more, nothing less.