joesph Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I don't have any kids. But I do have a monkey. I find that spanking my monkey makes us both feel better. Your monkey's faking it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itku2er Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I could be totally off the mark here but honestly there is a difference between abuse and discipline. Just like there a difference between fun and games and cruelty. No matter what side of the fence you on in this issue the fact remains that this chick definately needs some major parenting skills and help. If her lupus was so bad she couldnt care for the child maybe she shouldnt have been out in the mall buying that victoria secret special for the night with her man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepluv77 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I agree with you, Terri. On both counts. And there is a difference between abuse and discipline. When my children mess up they get time out followed by righting their wrong, whether it's an apology, cleaning up a mess, petting the dog nice, whatever. I feel pretty strongly against full out spanking. However, if my children do something that seriously jeopardizes their safety or the safety of someone else they get one warning. After that, they get one single pop on the butt to let them know that I mean business. It works because it's rare that it happens. And the point is not to cause pain like a lot people seem to think. If you're causing pain you need to not even try it. The point is shock value from the sound and the sudden immediate correction. It gets their attention so they listen when I explain why they can't do something and afterwards I don't have to repeat myself. With three little boys you cannot have them running wild and not listening. As far as the leashes, I don't like these new ones out now. Even "disguised" as a backpack, it's a leash and it's demeaning to the child. When I was a kid my mom had one that went on my wrist. It was no different than her holding my hand, but as a child it still gave me a sense of freedom without me wandering off. I don't disagree with something like that, but it should be used to teach a child right from wrong as it was with me. Just instill the habit. Not as a way to be a lazy parent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateo_1387 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Just because a 'punishment' doesnt 'leave marks', doesn't automatically preclude it from being classified as abuse or torture. Some of those actions are prohibited by the Geneva Convention, why in the hell would I use them on a child?!? The point I am trying to reach is that just because a method works to modify behavior does not make it right. All I am trying to get across is that as a universal law, physical punishment is not an ethical method to modify behavior. As others have asked before, if it is ok to use a physical form of punishment on kids, why not do it to adults? What makes children so special that they are allowed to be hit vs. and adult? Just because I do advocate the use of corporal punishment in some instances, it does NOT make me some sort of 'bad parent' or 'monster'! I have not even so much as hinted that you are a bad parent. Why all of a sudden this defense? Feeling guilty? After that, they get one single pop on the butt to let them know that I mean business. It works because it's rare that it happens. And the point is not to cause pain like a lot people seem to think. If you're causing pain you need to not even try it. The point is shock value from the sound and the sudden immediate correction. I am assuming you are using a pop on the butt to grab your child's attention when they are in a mentally chaotic state? If that is the case, why not just pinch the child? Would it be ok to hit your butt to grab your attention? Why do your children not deserve that same respect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Star Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Just because I do advocate the use of corporal punishment in some instances, it does NOT make me some sort of 'bad parent' or 'monster'! I have not even so much as hinted that you are a bad parent. Why all of a sudden this defense? Feeling guilty? Mateo, I never said you even as much as 'hinted that I was a bad parent'. There was another discussion very similar to this. Because I advocated the use of corporal punishment, I was made out to be a 'monster' and a parent who only used 'barbaric methods' to modify my children's behavior. Do I have a guilty concience because I advocate the 'tactical application' of corporal punishment? Not in the slightest! The ONLY reason I threw in that 'disclaimer' was to head off that whole train of thought before it blew up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Plain Ruff Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Of course, I have other 'tools' in my parental 'toolbox' besides 'a gentle talking to, time outs and a can of whoop ass'! But I also realize that there are offenses that warrant more than taking a bicycle away for 2 weeks, grounding them from 'enjoyable past times' and taking away the Xbox, television, computer, etc. I can't lock them in a homemade cell for stealing cookies from the cookie jar, but at the same time, that is not a 'whoop ass offense'. Corporal punishment DOES work, but I'm not saying that I do it because it feels good, nor am I advocating it for every offense. By the same token, I can't advocate time outs, lectures and a 'stern talking to' to cover it either. I firmly believe that the punishment must 'fit the crime'. I don't advocate some of the 'punishments' I endured as a child, (some of which would make you shake your head in amazement that I actually had to endure them, and wonder how I actually survived). When I advocate corporal punishment, I'm not talking about doubling up your fist and punching the kid in the face, but I think that there are some offenses that warrant a 'firm hand to the backside'. Just because a 'punishment' doesnt 'leave marks', doesn't automatically preclude it from being classified as abuse or torture. Some of those actions are prohibited by the Geneva Convention, why in the hell would I use them on a child?!? As a parent (yes people, there ARE little "Lone Stars" running around!), I have actually postponed ANY form of discipline until I have calmed down to the point where that anger is no longer a key element of the punishment. As I've stated before, I DO have other 'tools' at my disposal when it comes to disciplining MY children, and I will use them to the best of my ability to ensure that my children are well behaved, and grow up to become productive members of society. Let's say for conversational purposes, that my son has shoplifted a pack of baseball cards from the local store... The first thing thing that's going to happen is he is going to raid his piggy bank for the purchase price of said package of baseball cards, and we are going to go back to that store and have a talk with the manager/owner of the store. He WILL explain what he did, he WILL apologize for his actions and he WILL fork over his allowance money to pay for the object. When we get home, he WILL be grounded, he WILL NOT be allowed his video games, computer, television; and he WILL NOT be allowed to keep the baseball cards. Hopefully, this will curb such actions in the future. If not, then I will find other methods to deal with the problem. If ther IS a 'repeat performance', then there WILL be more stringent methods of punishment employed. As you can see, opening that can of 'whoop ass' isn't my first line of action. Just because I do advocate the use of corporal punishment in some instances, it does NOT make me some sort of 'bad parent' or 'monster'! That pulling him through the store would be a treat to my son. He would think it was a ride at the amusement park. But that being said, this kid seems to not be having a lick of problems with being dragged so I would be dollars to donuts that this has been done to him before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepluv77 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) I am assuming you are using a pop on the butt to grab your child's attention when they are in a mentally chaotic state? If that is the case, why not just pinch the child? Would it be ok to hit your butt to grab your attention? Why do your children not deserve that same respect? That's exactly why I do it. Pinching them would hurt a hell of a lot more than the pop on the butt. Like I said, it's not about pain it's about shock value. I do not cause my children pain. And your question about would it be okay for someone to hit me on my butt to grab my attention, yeah if I'm about to do something that could seriously injure/kill me please do! I'd rather be popped on the butt than plowed by a mack truck because I walked into the road without looking. Those are the situations I'm talking about. Not "Oh, he wouldn't eat his cereal." or "He was being loud." Give me a break. I also never do it out of anger, but as a last resort to protect my kids. Now, a question for you? Would it be okay for someone to pinch you to get your attention? Oh, yeah, and as far my kids go I'm not just "someone." Let some one outside the family do it and see how fast they get knocked out. See how fast I'd take out a family member for doing it for any reason other than a true safety threat and as a last resort. By the way, how many kids do you have Mateo? Edited August 14, 2009 by Jeepluv77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateo_1387 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 That's exactly why I do it. Pinching them would hurt a hell of a lot more than the pop on the butt. Like I said, it's not about pain it's about shock value. Is it generally acceptable to touch anyone's butt? This question is excluding engaging in sexual relations and diaper changes. And your question about would it be okay for someone to hit me on my butt to grab my attention, yeah if I'm about to do something that could seriously injure/kill me please do! I'd rather be popped on the butt than plowed by a mack truck because I walked into the road without looking. Those are the situations I'm talking about. I am going to call BS on people grabbing your butt being ok. If you are about to get hit by a Mack Truck, anyone in their right frame of mind is not going to be standing beside you, grabbing your butt and trying to get your attention to move out of the way while a Mack Truck is barreling down on you both. I bet after they pop your butt, you will turn around, become offended, and waste precious time worrying about some dude touching your butt before you realize your life is in peril. That is, if the dude is foolish enough to stay beside you while the Mack Truck is on its way sending you to….hello….. There are more appropriate methods to grab someone's attention than to touch their butt. If it is ok to grab your butt to get your attention, then it will be as acceptable to grab your boobies, all in the name of getting your attention. I honestly do not think any of those parts of the body would be acceptable to touch in order to get your attention. You are a fairly newcomer to EMS, at least that is what I glean from your posts. Hypothetically speaking.... You are on an EMS call with a need-to-treat patient. You, being new to the field and still learning are a bit nervous, have an adrenaline rush going, and are not thinking clearly. You decide you want to administer a medication to your patient that is not appropriate and has high potential to kill the patient. I, your partner have tried to tell you multiple time in a very discreet manner that you are about to make a huge mistake, but you do not get the hint. Out of an effort to save the patient from harm, I decide to get your attention by popping your butt. Sounds like a real respectful thing to do, eh? We, as a general population, perceive our butts as a no touch zone. Out of respect, we do not touch another person's butt. Why are children not given that same respect? Would it be okay for someone to pinch you to get your attention? Probably not. The question was asking why choose one option over the other. Oh, yeah, and as far my kids go I'm not just "someone." Let some one outside the family do it and see how fast they get knocked out. See how fast I'd take out a family member for doing it for any reason other than a true safety threat and as a last resort. Since you are a person, but also the mother to your kids, that makes it acceptable for you to touch your child's butt? Is it just the fact that you and your children share such a special relationship, (as any parent should) that you are more privileged to be allowed to pop your child's butt? By the way, how many kids do you have Mateo? I fail to see how this question is going to change a logical debate. Therefore, if you are genuinely interested in the number of kids I have, we can talk in PM. I will welcome that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepluv77 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 The long and short of it is that I use it to teach my children as a last resort. I don't use it for other people's children or for adults. Now, I will pull another child or an adult out of harm's way, but it's not my responsibility to discipline another person's child. You take it up with the parent and let them handle it. As for adults, I'll tell them flat out and bluntly about their mistake. They shouldn't need shock value to learn it. If they do and they're a medic, get them off the truck. In your scenario about being about to administer a wrong med: #1 That's why I won't be released when I first get out there. #2 If I'm about to kill a patient and hints haven't worked, call me out. Please. You need shock value, there you go. Why? Because I'm an adult, not a 7 year old. This is one of those topics that we can debate forever and I really don't see either of us changing our veiws. I know what works for my kids. I only have to use it maybe 3-4 times a year, if that. Which is exactly why it's so effective. It's not like I'm caressing them or otherwise being inappropriate, nor would I ever do so. And, yes, we've had that talk on what is inappropriate, the fact that those rules apply to anyone including family, and what to do in such a situation. Not only sexually inappropriate but if someone causes them pain in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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