itku2er Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Well the video never showed the kid having a fit or even being unruly. It showed it being drug through the store like a rag doll and actually the kid was not moving at all in the video. ummm so is there more to this story than we seen from that clip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwiology Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Jo, It sounds like your parents and My father/stepmother side of the family must have been friends! While living with them, I learned that a child didn't need to be beaten 'senseless' for every little 'infraction', but for the more 'serious offenses', a 'warmed backside' often did the trick. I've been on both sides of that 'abuse vs. discipline fence', and I DO know the difference between the 'tactical application' of corporal punishment and outright beating your child. Terri made a good point (another one of my views shaped by childhood lessons), if the mother was 'too sick' to actually keep her kid in line, then she was 'too sick' to be out cruising the local mall! The biggest problem I have with the way kids are being raised today is that the 'parents' are trying to be the kid's best friend, they're not teaching the kid that life is full of 'little disappointments' and even though these new 'trends' are SUPPOSED to be better for the child, I think that they're actually causing more harm than good. Ultimately, many of these parents are raising children that cannot cope in the 'real world'. Now before any of the 'new breed of parents' decide to draw a bullseye on my forehead and open fire, please notice that I said 'many of these parents'...not 'all of these parents'. I firmly believe that the child needs a strict structure to their lives, they have to be made aware of the fact that each and every action they do has potential 'good' and 'bad' consequences. In order for that to hapen, there has to be more in the 'discipline toolbox' than simply giving the child time-outs and 'a gentle talking to' in order to keep that child's behavior within socially acceptable standards. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate kids, nor do I think that 'all children are bad'! I've been completely impressed by some children's behavior by these methods, unfortunately, the 'impressive children' are the minority, while these 'demon spawn hellions' seem to out number them by a great margin. I could not agree more. The problem with my generation (if I were to choose jsut one) is lack of discipline; I went to school with kids who were nothing more than downright little bastards and they have simply left school and gone out into the big wide world with the same mantra. I do not blame the children but nonspecifically I blame society and specifically, the parents. There seems to have been a degredation of the concepts of responsibility and for lack of a better word, punishment. I do not condone physical punishment or the use of force against a child but I can sure as hell tell you that if I got a belt around the head from my old man for something hey I learnt, "man I better not do that again!". Parents seem to be scared to "tell it like it is" or be the disclipinarian because "Johnny might not like me" well newsflash bro your kid is not HERE for you to be a FRIEND; YOU are here to give the kid the necessary skills to cope in the REAL world. I see kids run rampant in the mall and I feel like walking over, grabbing the kid by the scruff of thier neck and telling them "this is not how you behave in public" but does that happen ... no, why, because parents seem to have lost whatever it was they had a generation ago that would make them do that. I mean hell look at Red Foreman off That 70s Show, dont you guys all remember your dad being like that? I also blame the education system; this is where the majority of time is spent by a young person but you don't learn any real skills there about how the REAL WORLD works but hey you do learn art and French and computers and how to have a root in the B block girls toilets before lunch is over. If you told the teacher when I was in high school to "get fucked" (which I have seen more than once) or "I'm not doing what you ask" (daily occurance) nothing meaningful happened; you got sent home for a week, big whoop. My generation is growing up with a very altered concept of responsibility and that one must accept thier own actions. I'm worried because some of these people might be getting into power ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joesph Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 As far as this woman I think it has been covered well, except the idea of tieing to the four wheeler and taking her for a spin. But I can still remember my mother warning me to behave in public or she would drop my my pants and spank me. ( we learned early to put hankys in our back pockets for protection) And you know I listened and still loved my mother and behaved. Some one wiser then me told me that discipline should be consistent and appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustdevil Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 Well the video never showed the kid having a fit or even being unruly. It showed it being drug through the store like a rag doll and actually the kid was not moving at all in the video. ummm so is there more to this story than we seen from that clip? Yeah, what it doesn't show is her throwing him out of his wheelchair onto the ground before she drags him across the store. I've always had a problem with the leashes. But I have no problem with dragging the little slug across the floor. In fact, hopefully she was taking him outside to beat him too. Tough love! Let's get real for a moment. When I was that age, I found nothing more fun than having my dad either throw me up in the air, or drag me around the house. It's not exactly abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwiology Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Let's get real for a moment. When I was that age, I found nothing more fun than having my dad either throw me up in the air, or drag me around the house. It's not exactly abuse. Yeah but remember bro when you were that age, nothing else had been invented yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Star Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Yeah but remember bro when you were that age, nothing else had been invented yet Sure there was...he could have been pelted with rocks, or maybe fed to the neighborhood dinosaurs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateo_1387 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 When I was growing up, any adult who asked me to do something was the boss. I learned to respect my elders and I learned that just because I wanted "instant gratification", that didn't mean that it was always best for me. Not trying to nit pick, but rather understand. With that in mind, I want to ask… Why was any adult the boss? When I grew up, I listened to persons who were supposed to be my authority, such as my parents, teacher, etc… IMO, most persons should be treated with respect, but to be a respected person, that has to be earned. Age simply is not a qualifier to have earned respect, again, IMO. It sounds like your parents and My father/stepmother side of the family must have been friends! While living with them, I learned that a child didn't need to be beaten 'senseless' for every little 'infraction', but for the more 'serious offenses', a 'warmed backside' often did the trick. I've been on both sides of that 'abuse vs. discipline fence', and I DO know the difference between the 'tactical application' of corporal punishment and outright beating your child. ...snip... I firmly believe that the child needs a strict structure to their lives, they have to be made aware of the fact that each and every action they do has potential 'good' and 'bad' consequences. In order for that to hapen, there has to be more in the 'discipline toolbox' than simply giving the child time-outs and 'a gentle talking to' in order to keep that child's behavior within socially acceptable standards. ...snip... So, what feels so right about forcefully hitting a child? Is it to cause them to fear their parents, anticipate pain, and violate a sensitive part of the kid’s body all in the name of behavior modification? To me, these seem like harsh tactics. I do happen to agree with part of your post. Children need to have structure in their life, and that includes consistent discipline. Also, I hope there is more in your toolbox besides time-outs, ‘a gentle talking to’, and a can of whoop ass. ...I do not condone physical punishment or the use of force against a child but I can sure as hell tell you that if I got a belt around the head from my old man for something hey I learnt, "man I better not do that again!"... ... I see kids run rampant in the mall and I feel like walking over, grabbing the kid by the scruff of thier neck and telling them "this is not how you behave in public" but does that happen ... no, why, because parents seem to have lost whatever it was they had a generation ago that would make them do that... I know that physical punishment does work, such as spanking, but it sure cannot be the best method. I guess since it is ok to spank kids, it should to be ok to shock kids with electricity, submerge them in water, drag them by a leash, put them in strait jackets, make them sniff ammonia inhalants, and verbally assault them to modify their behavior. Most of those do not leave ‘marks’, are unpleasant, and would certainly modify their behavior, so why not add those to the aforementioned ‘toolbox’? My guess, they simply do not feel like the appropriate thing to do. To address the second part I quoted, why would you do such a thing? Are you going to use that same anger when you physically punish the child? Maybe parents who do not physically harm their children know better. At the same time, parents of today may know physical punishment is not the most appropriate, but do not possess the skills to discipline in other forms. Could it be they cannot discipline without spanking because they learned only what their parents know, which is to simply spank the child? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustdevil Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 I don't have any kids. But I do have a monkey. I find that spanking my monkey makes us both feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateo_1387 Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 And now we know why you never had kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Star Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 (edited) So, what feels so right about forcefully hitting a child? Is it to cause them to fear their parents, anticipate pain, and violate a sensitive part of the kid’s body all in the name of behavior modification? To me, these seem like harsh tactics. I do happen to agree with part of your post. Children need to have structure in their life, and that includes consistent discipline. Also, I hope there is more in your toolbox besides time-outs, ‘a gentle talking to’, and a can of whoop ass. Of course, I have other 'tools' in my parental 'toolbox' besides 'a gentle talking to, time outs and a can of whoop ass'! But I also realize that there are offenses that warrant more than taking a bicycle away for 2 weeks, grounding them from 'enjoyable past times' and taking away the Xbox, television, computer, etc. I can't lock them in a homemade cell for stealing cookies from the cookie jar, but at the same time, that is not a 'whoop ass offense'. Corporal punishment DOES work, but I'm not saying that I do it because it feels good, nor am I advocating it for every offense. By the same token, I can't advocate time outs, lectures and a 'stern talking to' to cover it either. I firmly believe that the punishment must 'fit the crime'. I don't advocate some of the 'punishments' I endured as a child, (some of which would make you shake your head in amazement that I actually had to endure them, and wonder how I actually survived). When I advocate corporal punishment, I'm not talking about doubling up your fist and punching the kid in the face, but I think that there are some offenses that warrant a 'firm hand to the backside'. I know that physical punishment does work, such as spanking, but it sure cannot be the best method. I guess since it is ok to spank kids, it should to be ok to shock kids with electricity, submerge them in water, drag them by a leash, put them in strait jackets, make them sniff ammonia inhalants, and verbally assault them to modify their behavior. Most of those do not leave ‘marks’, are unpleasant, and would certainly modify their behavior, so why not add those to the aforementioned ‘toolbox’? My guess, they simply do not feel like the appropriate thing to do. Just because a 'punishment' doesnt 'leave marks', doesn't automatically preclude it from being classified as abuse or torture. Some of those actions are prohibited by the Geneva Convention, why in the hell would I use them on a child?!? To address the second part I quoted, why would you do such a thing? Are you going to use that same anger when you physically punish the child? Maybe parents who do not physically harm their children know better. At the same time, parents of today may know physical punishment is not the most appropriate, but do not possess the skills to discipline in other forms. Could it be they cannot discipline without spanking because they learned only what their parents know, which is to simply spank the child? As a parent (yes people, there ARE little "Lone Stars" running around!), I have actually postponed ANY form of discipline until I have calmed down to the point where that anger is no longer a key element of the punishment. As I've stated before, I DO have other 'tools' at my disposal when it comes to disciplining MY children, and I will use them to the best of my ability to ensure that my children are well behaved, and grow up to become productive members of society. Let's say for conversational purposes, that my son has shoplifted a pack of baseball cards from the local store... The first thing thing that's going to happen is he is going to raid his piggy bank for the purchase price of said package of baseball cards, and we are going to go back to that store and have a talk with the manager/owner of the store. He WILL explain what he did, he WILL apologize for his actions and he WILL fork over his allowance money to pay for the object. When we get home, he WILL be grounded, he WILL NOT be allowed his video games, computer, television; and he WILL NOT be allowed to keep the baseball cards. Hopefully, this will curb such actions in the future. If not, then I will find other methods to deal with the problem. If ther IS a 'repeat performance', then there WILL be more stringent methods of punishment employed. As you can see, opening that can of 'whoop ass' isn't my first line of action. Just because I do advocate the use of corporal punishment in some instances, it does NOT make me some sort of 'bad parent' or 'monster'! Edited August 12, 2009 by Lone Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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