EMS degree and opportunities

[cdcmj]

hi all, first time post

I am a 4 year volly EMT-B and f/f. I am in my 3rd year at a rather large, accredited college in western PA. I did my first 2 years of undergrad with pre-med in my mind. Decided it wasn't for me and I luckily enrolled in to my schools emergency medicine program. The junior year is getting NREMTP, and senior year is the 'degree' portion.

My question is.. what do you all know when it comes to 4-year EMS degrees and their monetary, etc, recognition in the field. Any services, states, or communities that look for this type of education and compensate 'somewhat' accordingly. I know in this immediate area, there is a relatively low demand for just EMT-P's, and time in/education doesn't change your pay as well. All advice/help is appreciated.

My main reason for posting is that as graduation comes close, I am seeing where I will be 'in demand' with my expensiveeee ass degree in the field and simply, where am i gonna go after i graduate (ohh wonderful indecision of the early twenties).

[UMSTUDENT]

hi all, first time post

I am a 4 year volly EMT-B and f/f. I am in my 3rd year at a rather large, accredited college in western PA. I did my first 2 years of undergrad with pre-med in my mind. Decided it wasn't for me and I luckily enrolled in to my schools emergency medicine program. The junior year is getting NREMTP, and senior year is the 'degree' portion.

My question is.. what do you all know when it comes to 4-year EMS degrees and their monetary, etc, recognition in the field. Any services, states, or communities that look for this type of education and compensate 'somewhat' accordingly. I know in this immediate area, there is a relatively low demand for just EMT-P's, and time in/education doesn't change your pay as well. All advice/help is appreciated.

My main reason for posting is that as graduation comes close, I am seeing where I will be 'in demand' with my expensiveeee ass degree in the field and simply, where am i gonna go after i graduate (ohh wonderful indecision of the early twenties).

By the sound of the curriculum, I'd say you're at Pittsburgh. I informally interviewed there, but ended up choosing Maryland over it for a couple personal and academic reasons.

There is absolutely, IMHO, no market for Bachelor's prepared paramedics. None. In fact, depending on the department, it may disqualify you for a job. Fortunately, I've only found this in the northeast mostly. Systems like Wake County, NC embrace education. I read recently that all of the upper administration there has at least a bachelor's degree and many have upper-level graduate degrees.

I've done a good bit of research with our graduates and have found the following:

1. Most end up being absorbed into fire/EMS systems as would any other paramedic. There is about a 50/50 split from graduates. Some say the degree has helped them advance tremendously while others attribute any upper mobility to shear hard work. The good news is that most are supervisors/administration fairly quickly.

2. Many choose to progress to higher medicine. Nursing and Physician Assistant programs eat up a lot of these people. Nursing is a quick bridge in some areas. Depending on your program's prerequisite curriculum, you're practically set-up for admission to a PA program. Our program’s high # of clinical hours meets most of the "documented" clinical experience needed for admission.

3. Emergency Management. We've had a couple of guys/gals go into emergency management. One of my roommates works for a private consulting firm in DC making boatloads of cash. Another works for a local state emergency management agency.

4. Medical School. In the early 90s the degree was a ticket to an MD or DO. I think medical schools have been saturated with these kinds of applicants now. A lot of pre-med/paramedic students encounter the same difficulties as other students now with admission. Granted, the clinical experience still speaks wonders of the individual, but it’s still a difficult process. Plus, these programs seem to be extremely credit intensive. Most paramedic-track majors don't have enough available (manageable) credit hours to fit in the full year of organic chemistry and semester of physics/calculus. Unless you stay an extra year (too expensive), community college or a formal post-bac is your only route later in life. I think a lot of prospective medical school applicants get lost in the "real world."

I’m finishing my senior year now. I’m currently deciding on option 2 or 4.

[cdcmj]

well as of now, i have no real ambition to go nursing, PA, or MD, but im still young i always say...

any other input from other people?

BTW- what does your roomate specifically do to make 'boatloads' for a private company ( what kind of company and approx. income?) Thanks for your input

[UMSTUDENT]

BTW- what does your roomate specifically do to make 'boatloads' for a private company ( what kind of company and approx. income?) Thanks for your input

My old roommate works for a private consulting/lobbying firm in DC. I'd say he's making in the range of 55,000-65,000 grand right now as a first year graduate. He acquired the job before he finished his Master's. I'll leave out details in the interest of discretion for his job and company.

Remember, MOST first-year college graduates make crap. I think a lot of EMS professionals forget this. Many young adults live for years on the poverty line. The fundamental difference is that most careers have a defined upward mobility based on experience that, given proper marketing, will produce a livable career. We're spoiled as paramedics because you can make 60,000-70,000 a year with OT. We forget two things:

1. This never goes up.

2. We're working horrendous overtime to accomplish it.

Seriously, just stay away from the northeast. Period. Look at the South and Midwest if you're looking for a fiscally responsible, performance oriented EMS organizations who will need your education. I work per diem at a local EMS organization to make some beer money. I was quickly assigned administrative duties/hours as part of my job.

The #1 remark I get is that I can:

1) Spell words correctly.

2) Utilize proper grammar and punctuation.

3) Use a word processor.

4) Use Excel.

Things I've learned in college have helped to some extent. I know fundamental research techniques and can read and interpret a peer-reviewed study. I can speak, intelligently, with professionals . I can write a technical memo. I know basic managerial skills, aka conflict resolution stuff...

Still, the first four have been seen as far more useful to my organization. Sad but true.

[paramedicmike]

Pessimism aside, while some of what UM is saying is true, it's not the final word by any means.

Will a BS help you in this industry today? Probably not in the way you want it to (salary et cetera). Will it help you in the long run? Probably. We don't know for sure the direction this industry is headed. There's a lot of different things going on. The educational background received from a formal educational program, as opposed to a tech school preparation that doesn't offer the additional education you've received, will serve you better in the long run.

No matter what objections the naysayers will raise, a degree carries weight with those with whom we interact. You may not see a financial kickback from it today. But don't think about today. Think five, ten years from now after you've been doing this for a while. That educational base, combined with continued formal education that you should be doing as well, and you'll be set for where ever this industry is headed.

Besides, you need your time in the trenches to start. That'll occupy your time for a few years after graduation.

Where can you go? From my understanding, any place outside of western PA. If you head east, closer to Philly (but avoid Philly itself) the wages get better...in some places you can make fair money. I'd avoid the northeast otherwise...especially NJ.

Before you make the big jump to go anywhere, do your research of the local market and cost of living. Ask here. There are people all over the world who frequent here. But whatever you do, don't drop school once you get that big envelope in the mail. You'd be shooting yourself in the foot.

-be safe

[Capman]

Well, ok. I will agree with you to some extent. However education expectations should be no different whether you are going on 2 calls a day or 20. All organizations (I would expect) should be performance oriented. If one was not, I'm not sure I would want to work there. I am from the north east, and while call volumes are significantly lower, it does not mean that expectations of care are any less than a service that does 150,000 calls a year. A patient in the Allagash; Population 17, expects and deserves care no less than that of a patient who resides in a larger city.

I do encourage the degree. It will put you ahead of others when it comes to higher positions such as management, but do keep in mind that it will not get you any more money for field work. Usually higher pay will be dependant on experience which will land you higher in a step wage system or similar systems. If you are fresh, expect to start at the bottom.

[UMSTUDENT]

Pessimism aside, while some of what UM is saying is true, it's not the final word by any means.

-be safe

My understanding is that you're a former disciple...

??

[ksmedic202]

Coming from Kansas, I can say that a 2 vs 4 yr degree means very little, esp when it comes to financial decisions. All paramedic programs in Kansas have or are converting to a 2 year degree ( as a lot of them were certification programs in the past, this is a huge step for us). I work for the Federal Government as a GS-7 paramedic with a 2year degree, I make approx. $45,000 per year, same as I would make if I have a 4 year degree. This is probably the best paying job in the state. With time in grade I will probably max out at $60,000 per year.

Four year degree medics here trend toward management. Once you factor in the huge rural population here and the shortage of EMS personnel, you can begin to see why. Street time and a 4 year degree will get you a management position here because you are the best qualified due to lack of choice. Even in our more urban areas i.e. Topeka, Wichita, and Kansas City, many medics are of the 2 year degree type. How they progress I cant really say, but management postions there are a little harder to come by.

On a side not, if we are absorbed by the the fire dept. where I work, my 2 year degree will have me in a comparble salary bracket to several assistant directors/directors in the state.

This is just regular shift work with no overtime.