Fireguy181

I think you're misreading it. Nobody here is arguing that rape should not be reported. The discussion, as it pertains to this thread, is largely moral and academic. In the case of the kids, no crime has been committed. The moral outrage as expressed by the OP seems to entertain the thought that we as EMS providers are somehow responsible for everything everyone does.

Now, if you were to start throwing in age differences *then* there may be a discussion regarding statutory rape even if both were consenting members. And then, if the nurse on scene had any brains about him/her, there would already be police on the way. Otherwise, there's nothing here.

With regards to the drugs on scene question, just how are you going to handle this? Say, for the sake of discussion, the cops are summoned. Are you going to wait on scene for them to arrive potentially endangering the life and well being of the patient? If the answer is no you're not waiting then the cops can't enter the residence without a warrant and the word of a medic is insufficient grounds on which to obtain a warrant. This is of no benefit to anyone and a huge waste of time to the cops. If you answer yes you're going to wait you're potentially endangering the life and well being of your patient. If you answer yes you're waiting you're effectively judging your patient for engaging in activities with which you disagree. This ultimately makes you 1) unprofessional and 2) a lousy EMS provider.

Let's take this a step further. We see people break the law every day. Traffic violations are infractions of the law. Do you report every single traffic infraction to the police? How about jaywalkers? How about loiterers? How about trespassers? Do you turn your partner in for speeding in the ambulance?

If you do it for one you do it for all. And we, nor the police, have the capacity to handle all of that.

ETA: I'm curious just how many different spellings of the word "consensual" can be found in this discussion. And people are rapping about something? I never was much of a poet.

Perhaps I may have misread the scenario. I guess I am not seeing what the chief complaint here really is? I think if the girl is "upset" she had sex and needs comforting, I think the camp nurse is more than substantial to do that. The way I am taking this is that it is an "evaluation" like many will often be called to after a suspected case, or cry of rape. And we all know children will withdraw and are reluctant to speak the facts right when we walk in the door. I guess a good reason to always watch for body language of a child, since it can speak a million words.

As far as the illegal drugs go, if there is no officer on scene, and nobody in direct harm of discovery of the drugs, it’s not our problem.

And no need to point out my spelling errors. I am not proof reading my posts, although I can start if you would like. I see spelling errors and grammatical errors in everybody’s post, including yours.

Nice way to ignore the scenario as it was presented. So you're going to assume that just because a 15 year old boy *can* force himself on a 15 year old girl that that's what happened? Even though the scenario is a case of consensual contact? Do you routinely ignore information when you're on a call because someone *may* have been capable of doing something illegal or untoward or damaging to others?

Are you going to turn in every under age patient who admits to you they're having sex? After all, the individual in question *could* have been raped, too. Following your logic would dictate that the answer would be yes.

Let's use some common sense here.

Okay.. I will agree with you. For this scenario I will change my answer to no. Now in real life where information is not clearly layed out in scenario format I will say yes. If life was perfect, and all was swell our dispatchs' would sound like "Medic 1 due to respond to the summer camp for 15 y/o female who knowingly conscented to sex with a male of the same age, she is now having second feelings" When do you hear a dispatch like that? If that female, or male, I dont care who it is, says they were rapped I take their word for it. Like you said in your last post we are not the cops we dont have to investigate drugs. Well you are right we are not the cops...nor lawyers we do not have the right to investigate or charge with rape. We are Mandated reporters not mandated investigators. Rape is rape, Im not a lawyer I dont care what the law says "How old one has to be to commit rape".. if someone says they were raped I will further that information on to the AHJ.

Let them figure it out, Im sure you will regret ignoring a cry for help and then possibly loose a license over it?

Now going to the other side... Maybe i am misreading the scenario. Maybe the female's chief complaint to the nurse was her having "second feelings about entering into sex" If thats the case I would document and advise the nurse and or female to talk to someone about it. But if she even so much as says or lips the word rape, force, or that she said no... thats getting reported

No. No crime has been committed. I'm not a lawyer but some brief research indicates that in the US it's only a crime if one of the participants is over the age of consent while the other is under. In many places, there are exemptions if the two participants are within a certain number of years age-wise. But if both are under the age of consent and are both willing participants there is no crime and therefore no reporting responsibility.

Absolutely not. While we may have a suspicion that the material in question is, in fact, illicit or illegal drugs, we can't know for sure. We're not drug experts. We have no testing equipment. We have no authority in our capacity as EMS providers to do anything but provide care for the person in question.

Would a casual word to an officer along the lines of, "Hey... you may want to keep an eye on that place..." be appropriate? Perhaps. Mandatory? Nope. Not a chance.

I choose to highlight these two phrases because they seem to go hand in hand. You are certainly right we are not drug experts.. nor lawyers. I believe that doesnt give us the right to interpret the law. Yea... it may not be a book definition of "rape" But we all know a 15 y/o male can still certainly have his way, forcefully, with a 15 y/o female. This is a scenario too, there is going to be no way of knowing on scene that the female conscented to sex. In my opinion even if she says it happend it is up to us to relay the information onto the AHJ to investigate an turn it over to the court for interpretation. Although while EMT's are debating this remember camp counselors and nurses are also mandated reporters.. what does the camp nurse think?

Sorry devils advocate

I would report number 1 to local authorities

Number 2 I would say No to reporting directly to the authorties. But documentation of what was seen is a must. And in our FPD running with an ALS Engine on every call has is benefits. I would report it to the Lieutenant for him to make the final decision. As far as Im concerned mandated reporting, atleast in IL, does not cover every illegal activities. Only those which shown abuse (ie. elder, and child abuse, physical).

This just got good!

I Dont like when people fake their service.... seems to be alot of that on the internet now days

This is a study in its own...

Take a look at the videos I have attached. While more steel and larger vehicles may seem better, its all about crumple zones, airbags, and roof resistance tests.

Stay out of hummers, They have the worst crash test, have poor crumple, and poor roof resistance. You just have to sit back, do your own research and figure out what offers the best crash protection. Yea Mercedez is leader in safety but their side impact on the ML series was un impressive. VW has the Tiguan and it has very impressive roof resistance test including 15,000psi at under 2 inches of crumple, where most othr cars have already crumpled 4-6 inches at 15,000 psi. Ill give you some links to videos to get you started. I will admit I am impressed with the whole line of F series also the Sierra and Silverado's have made large strides in crash test ratings, leaving the Ram series behind.

Although your interested in DRW (duallie) I would not stop looking, single rear wheel truck (SRW) has less chance of loosing traction in bad conditions, its all about "GVW per Tire Surface Area" The more tire surface area you have, the less weight you are getting to the ground technically speaking. Duallies are not made for traction, they actually sometimes have horrible traction, they are made for comfort while towing large loads and to prevent trailer sway. Not to mention the 4.10 gearing and horrible fuel mileage whether it be diesel or gas.

Welcome!

I am also new here, seems like a great place to take in information. Im currently enrolled in medic class and have found info here more than helpful

Thanks for the kind welcome! I am taking the course through the Mother hospital for our EMS system. I decided it was a good time to take it before the curriculum changed and they reuired a whole mess of hours and college credits. The course actually just started so with any luck I might be done in December

Well thank ya, and yea that seems to be the mindset out here. I would call anything South of I80 the "sticks"

Its alright Im very lucky to live rural and work Urban

Just west of Chicago, in the Aurora region. Part of SFVEMS (Souther Fox Valley)

Im new here from IL. Im a Fire fighter/EMT-B currently in EMT-P class, looking forward to getting some good information here.