Medics on Antidepressants

[Dustdevil]

Non-medicated depressives could be suicidal to the point that they steal drugs from the unit to off themselves, or don't care about anyone else around them and are harmful to patients and their partners.

Good point. At least the medicated ones can off themselves with their own meds, and I won't have to worry about them stealing a dollar-fifty worth of diazepam from my truck.

[Trooper]

I have been watching this thread for a few days... and thinking about the varied responses.

I think all agree that prescribing meds as the OP was referring to is inappropriate.

Prescribing to "prevent burnout" is absurd.

I find some of the other posts thought-provoking. I don't agree with some, and one caused me to consider the ripple effect...

This comment bothers me... put them in dispatch?????? And you worry about EMS people taking a potentially altering medication, and yet you are willing to have those same people be in dispatch? I disagree.. If your argument is that you don't want them in EMS because the medication may cloud their judgment, you blew the argument with this comment. Dispatch is also about judgment calls.

So where do we draw the line? Anything that alters brain chemistry makes someone unfit for EMS? Just consider... a partner who was at a wedding or a bachelor party yesterday and shows up today hung over/dehydrated/ill.... probably has altered his/her brain chemistry.. do we send them home? A female on birth control pills... or at "that time of the month".. all PMS jokes aside... quite possibly has a different emotional level than before... do we refuse to employ females? The guy who has decided to quit smoking... and is more than a bit edgy because of it... is that altered brain chemistry? Do we refuse to let them treat a patient?

The ripple effect, although you could say that is absurd, is possible... and possibly heading back into the dark ages.

A truly personal opinion... I would far prefer the partner who has recognized that they have depression, have sought out professional help, and are working towards solutions, including medications, and are aware of their own limitations, over the partner who parties constantly, shows up hung over, and is generally far less responsible for his or her own health and the health of the rest of the crew and patient by showing up to work at less than 100%.

Just my two cents...

[Cadet66HM5]

Good point. At least the medicated ones can off themselves with their own meds, and I won't have to worry about them stealing a dollar-fifty worth of diazepam from my truck.

So you are more concerned about paperwork than the lives of your co-workers? And if they are properly medicated, then why would they off themselves? Annie is right...non-medicated, physician supervised, depressives are chemically altered...so are you going to be screening employees 24/7 for signs of depression?? Because I would like to see where you get THAT funding because guess what...people get depressed. I bet even you Dust at one point in your life (probably even while working EMS or nursing) that you had a rough couple of days where the chemicals running around in your brain were a little altered. Or those cold medicines you take OTC for a stuffy nose.

The point is how to we discriminate between anti-depressants, cold medicine, being hung over, and the bodies natural hormones and chemical imbalances.

[Just Plain Ruff]

but you dont' get put on antidepressants for 4 days of feeling blue. That's a absurd argument.

You get put on antidepressants for documented and diagnosed cases of depression.

if you need antidepressants for 4 days worth of depression then you have more issues than you admit to.

I don't have a problem with people working with antidepressants or anti-anxiety meds but the first time or the first inkling that I have that they are impaired due to the medications then I'm gonna yank em off my truck.

[Just Plain Ruff]

dust you are making the newbies mad again aren't you?

[Just Plain Ruff]

This thread has actually been an enlightenment as to how many of you would not work witm someone like myself because I am on SSRI's or other types of anti depressants. Actually makes me sad to say that you would all happily call me a friend or say you would work with me and then when some of you type things like you would never want to to work with a medic on anti depressants or have one treat your/beloved family member, it actually makes you out to be liars.

This thread has shown in reality that there are biggoted and judgemental people out there.

the unfortunate thing is that they aren't liars in my opinion. If after they found out you were on ssri's or whatever and they still said they would work with you and then they come here and post they wouldn't then that is a lie but since I can almost bet that there are not many people here who do know you personally you can't really call them liars since they don't know you.

If they did know you, if they did know you were on ssri's and they tell you to your face that they would have no problem working with you and then you saw them posting here that they wouldn't work with you then yes, they would then be liars.

It's all semantics.

[Cadet66HM5]

That was not my argument Ruff...my argument was that during those 4 days of feeling blue, the persons brain is possibly chemically altered in the same way that people are arguing that taking the anti-depressants chemically alters the mind therefore making people unfit to do the job.

And on your point Ruff, I agree, the moment their work becomes compromised you should pull them off the unit...will you do the same for someone who is hung over, has a bad head cold, or has not had a good nights sleep... and makes a mistake in their patient assessment or fumbles around trying to get a blood pressure?

Because if you are willing to shrug those fumbles off to 'oh they have a cold' or 'they didn't sleep much last night' or 'I'm having family issues at home' then why are we pulling people off of units for making the adult, mature decision to go get help for their problem.

Edited for grammar

[Just Plain Ruff]

That was not my argument Ruff...my argument was that during those 4 days of feeling blue, the persons brain is possibly chemically altered in the same way that people are arguing that taking the anti-depressants chemically alters the mind therefore making people unfit to do the job.

And on your point Ruff, I agree, the moment their work becomes compromised you should pull them off the unit...will you do the same for someone who is hung over, has a bad head cold, or has not had a good nights sleep... and makes a mistake in their patient assessment or fumbles around trying to get a blood pressure?

Because if you are willing to shrug those fumbles off to 'oh they have a cold' or 'they didn't sleep much last night' or 'I'm having family issues at home' then why are we pulling people off of units for making the adult, mature decision to go get help for their problem.

Edited for grammar

Listen, if you are impaired in any way, be it cold medicines, psych medications, hung over or stuff like that then yeah, I'll pull em because it's not about them, It's NOT about us, it's about the patient. Do you want to look a patient in the eye and say "yeah, I knew my partner was impaired but I did nothing about it"? I think not.

If you are taking any medication that impairs your ability to do your job to the best of your ability then hell yes I'd kicking you off. If you are hung over then there is probably alcohol still in your system and sorry to say that you might lose out on a day's pay but that's not my problem. I've booted a driver for being hung over. More on that story later.

I have actually called my supervisor and said I have taken some pain pills for a terrible back ache and I cant' come in. The supervisor said how long ago did you take them. I said 3 hours ago and the sup said, you can come in and work and I said no. I got a no call no show mark on my record but at least my conscious was clean.

One other thing, I have not advocated in this thread the removal of workers who are currently on psych meds, I have advocated that if impaired that they should NOT be allowed to work until they are unimpaired.

How do you determine them to be unimpaired, I have not the foggiest idea except a cognitive test or skills test to get back in the swing of things. If they pass that test then they can go back on the streets. i'll leave that test determination to the higher ups.

[Cadet66HM5]

that you and I are on the same page My concern was that some people were discriminating between anti-depressants and other chemically/mind altering drugs. But as long as we judge each drug/person individually and not discriminate than it's all good

[Just Plain Ruff]

yeah, god forbid we do it for the patient? Can't hurt anyone's feelings that's why we have to look at all aspects of the situation rather than just the one aspect that's important - the patient.

Is having a medic or emt who is on these psych drugs in the best interest of the patient which is why we are all here anyway.

If the medic/emt is not impaired then yeah, the patient benefits.

If the medic/emt is imparied then off the truck until judged unimpaire - patient benefits again.

But just to pull the medic/emt off because they are on these medications with no obvious issues is a lose to the medic/emt and the patient - lose lose.