Would you stop?

[tniuqs]

Bias towards the patient you are already loaded with and committed to is a no-brainer, regardless of age. You're trying to take this off on an irrelevant tangent.

No not really just asking a simple question in regards to that "posters" position, tis it not a viable query ?

Please note that nowhere in the article is it stated that the seizure was febrile in origin. Not all seizures are febrile seizures. The fact is that this crew had absolutely zero way of determining the etiology of the seizures, and therefore zero way of knowing the severity of the child's condition.

Look to statistics when it comes to siezure activity in a paed, in fact was it not you that brought stats into this discussion to justify your position, am I disqualified in this friendly debate?

And if you want to continue to play this silly numbers game, remember that there is a statistically greater chance that a seizure patient is unstable than the chances of an MVA victim having critical injuries.

Silly when I do it, but when "others" do it is acceptable, perhaps a double standard excists ? The injuries (yet once again you forgot possible "medical" problems) these cannot be blindly ignored without proper investigation.

Any way you look at it, mathematically, legally, ethically, logically, medically, or even by FDNYs own policies, these guys were wrong.

FDNY policy Yes, some legal juristictions Yes in some states of the Union.

But ethically, logical, medically, sociolologically or culturally ..?

I mathmatically and philosophically disagree with your position.

[tniuqs]

Since the law is quite clear on this whole issue, I don't have the choice to make. It's called into dispatch, regardless of how much I may want to stop and deal with my parents who may be injured. Either I follow protocols, or I lose my license.....it's that simple. There is no room for 'modified interpretation' of protocols. They are set forth for a reason. End of story.

Lone are you really saying you would pass by a wreck with YOUR PARENTS INVOLVED?

No court in any land would take your licence for this, so your piece of paper is more important than your parents ? :shock:

NOT MINE :roll:

Come on man just what did you do with LONESTAR ?

[Scaramedic]

What if, what if, what if, what if, what if?

VS you could easily flip your situation and say your working a cardiac arrest and someone stops you for a broken ankle. Hey you got multiple people in the back working a stable (dead) patient why not help Mrs I've fallen and can't get up?

I've been in this field since 1988 and never had a situation like the one above. So let's drop the what if crap please.

In short, some systems say you must stop, some say you can't stop. The real answer here is that none of us have a choice either way. Our directives state what the response is, not our personal feelings.

It would only come down to money here VS if we still had the cowboy system of ambulances services. Luckily most of those have gone by the wayside.

Everyone get over yourselves and learn what your department/city/county/province/country says you must do. I have the feeling a lot of the people stating their opinions here have very little experience and love to deal with what ifs.

JEMS = Fancy adds and superferlous articles, so who cares if they are stroking up some more wannabes to 'serve their community.'

[tniuqs]

Not all seizures are febrile seizures. The fact is that this crew had absolutely zero way of determining the etiology of the seizures, and therefore zero way of knowing the severity of the child's condition

Just a fleeting idea:

Perhaps take the childs temperature? pmhx may assist with a working dx as well. ?

Before I would transport (if cooling was ineffective, then IO and benzos as my preference to transport stablized patients, not scoop and run)

But thats just me again.

[vs-eh?]

VS you could easily flip your situation and say your working a cardiac arrest and someone stops you for a broken ankle. Hey you got multiple people in the back working a stable (dead) patient why not help Mrs I've fallen and can't get up?

I've been in this field since 1988 and never had a situation like the one above. So let's drop the what if crap please.

Come on Scara, yes of course you would stop and get out if you had a critical (I'd call a cardiac arrest that I am actually transporting, critical) patient :roll: . Come on dude, absolutely not the same thing.

Twenty years on and never experienced the above? Less than 5 years on and experienced basically the analogous twice...

[Lone Star]

Lone are you really saying you would pass by a wreck with YOUR PARENTS INVOLVED?

No court in any land would take your licence for this, so your piece of paper is more important than your parents ? :shock:

NOT MINE :roll:

Come on man just what did you do with LONESTAR ?

Sorry Squint,

But the law in Michigan makes no exceptions for family members, good samaritan acts and 'stable patients'. The law clearly states ( again in MI) that if you have a patient on board, you will NOT stop, or face disciplinary actions (not only at company level, but also at County/State levels. The final outcome is the very good possiblity that you're losing your license.

As much as it bothers me to have to pass up my family members because I have a patient on board, the law is crystal clear on this point. My personal feelings cannot negate nor justify violating the protocols that I must follow.

[vs-eh?]

Sorry Squint,

But the law in Michigan makes no exceptions for family members, good samaritan acts and 'stable patients'. The law clearly states ( again in MI) that if you have a patient on board, you will NOT stop, or face disciplinary actions (not only at company level, but also at County/State levels. The final outcome is the very good possiblity that you're losing your license.

Are you able to provide a link or reference that explicitly states for MI EMS that you cannot stop under any circumstance (save for I assume an accident/vehicle failure) while transporting a patient (regardless of acuity)?

[Scaramedic]

Of course it's not the same VS I was being a smart ass, two years now haven't you figured out I can be that way.

My main point is for the most part it is not out decision, most protocols cover just such a situation. The people on this forum are not the first ones to think of this.

And no in twenty years (Majority of which was major cities) I have never had the situation you mentioned. Now I have seen tons of crashes, falls, fights, men down etc, but never had a situation like you mentioned. Maybe I've just been lucky. Also consider some of those years were working in a system where as the Medic I was always in the back with the patient.

[Lone Star]

Unfortunately, Michigan EMS protocols are not available online, and I don't happen to have My protocol books available for scanning the appropriate pages to prove this point. (they're in Michigan, and I'm still stuck in GA)

Having worked in multiple counties, I've (at my own expense) purchased copies of those books and carried them in my briefcase in case I needed them for reference. They have on occasion saved me alot of hassles and heartaches!

In the event of accidents, mechanical failure, or otherwise unable to continue transport, a second unit will be dispatched to the scene and that patient will be transferred to someone with equal or higher licensure.

In the event of an accident involving the transporting unit, an appropriate number of units will be dispatched.

[vs-eh?]

Of course it's not the same VS I was being a smart ass, two years now haven't you figured out I can be that way.

I think the fish distracts me...

EDIT - I was going to make a Simpson's joke regarding Troy McClure and his fish fetish, but nobody would get it. If anyone remembers the episode or has any idea of what I'm talking about... Kudos...

PS - Canadians are still right on this one...