Just Plain Ruff Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 settle down as for the patient in question- how the heck did they get that picture??? Where was the news camera - must have been in a helicopter or something. What is wrong with the picture is that there were a bunch of firefighters and a stupid dumb ass patient in a building that was on fire and such and this dumb ass made them go in to get him. I say if he wanted to kill himself a simple gun would have sufficed. I have no sympathy for this piece of trash. All the other statements about poor care apply here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRPGfirerescuetech Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 This pains me incredibly to say this. Im going to side with the fire department here. It appears they are carrying him from some sort of un optimal or unsafe enviroment. That being said, the care and treatment practicality for ANYthing that has been suggested here is null and void. Rescue was completed. Patient was removed from area of immediate life or death harm. That being said, all care is nullified until all rescuers and the patient are in a safe area. Im impressed by what they did get done, not what they didnt. This same photo on the sidewalk of any random street in one of the glorious 5 boroughs, id be saying differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scaramedic Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I am no stranger to ripping on our co-workers in Nomex, but in this case I am going to venture into the land of defending them. Let's take a look at some of the other photos from this scene. [align=center:6f5994669a] I am assuming this photo was taken prior to them bringing him out, notice the stokes basket arriving and the guys lined up on the pile of rubble. Notice the entry way the firefighters disappear into to, does not seems like a place I would want to spend a lot of time prepping the patient for photo ops. PHTLS would consider this a rapid extrication situation. Finally, no orange helmets visible in this photo, they must be holding EMS back.[/align:6f5994669a] [align=center:6f5994669a] Another photo after they get the patient out. I have to admit for some reason I find this photo funny. When I look at it I can hear all the firefighters saying "you hid the treasure where?" Just like the other photo it is obvious they have made some mistakes.[/align:6f5994669a] [align=center:6f5994669a] In this photo EMS is all over the patient. If you look closely you can see at least two Medical Director's on scene, and several other EMS personnel talking to the patient. Once again I have visions of "where did you hide the treasure?" In all honesty they are probably asking the questions you would expect in a situation like this. "Are you having trouble breathing?" "Do you know where your at?" "Are you a member of Al Queada?" "Where's Osama Bin Laden?" [/align:6f5994669a] [align=center:6f5994669a] In this photo they have the patient on the cot and are probably heading to the truck. They do have oxygen at the patients head but it is not on the patient. Once again an FDNY Medical Director is all over the patient, but yet no oxygen. At least the collar has been adjusted and his head is taped.[/align:6f5994669a] [align=center:6f5994669a] One last action photo of them rushing the patient to the truck. Asysin2leads are you in there somewhere?[/align:6f5994669a] When this story popped up on my computer my heart sank, I thought "here we go again." I cannot imagine what it was like for FDNY/EMS when they got this call. I am willing to give them a little slack on this one. Mistakes were made by both Fire and EMS personnel. No it was not picture perfect, but I am willing to bet there were times when we all did things that we wouldn't want on the cover of the New York Daily News. Peace, Marty :joker: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medic001918 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I am no stranger to ripping on our co-workers in Nomex, but in this case I am going to venture into the land of defending them. Let's take a look at some of the other photos from this scene. [align=center:517f470783] I am assuming this photo was taken prior to them bringing him out, notice the stokes basket arriving and the guys lined up on the pile of rubble. Notice the entry way the firefighters disappear into to, does not seems like a place I would want to spend a lot of time prepping the patient for photo ops. PHTLS would consider this a rapid extrication situation. Finally, no orange helmets visible in this photo, they must be holding EMS back.[/align:517f470783] [align=center:517f470783] Another photo after they get the patient out. I have to admit for some reason I find this photo funny. When I look at it I can hear all the firefighters saying "you hid the treasure where?" Just like the other photo it is obvious they have made some mistakes.[/align:517f470783] [align=center:517f470783] In this photo EMS is all over the patient. If you look closely you can see at least two Medical Director's on scene, and several other EMS personnel talking to the patient. Once again I have visions of "where did you hide the treasure?" In all honesty they are probably asking the questions you would expect in a situation like this. "Are you having trouble breathing?" "Do you know where your at?" "Are you a member of Al Queada?" "Where's Osama Bin Laden?" [/align:517f470783] [align=center:517f470783] In this photo they have the patient on the cot and are probably heading to the truck. They do have oxygen at the patients head but it is not on the patient. Once again an FDNY Medical Director is all over the patient, but yet no oxygen. At least the collar has been adjusted and his head is taped.[/align:517f470783] [align=center:517f470783] One last action photo of them rushing the patient to the truck. Asysin2leads are you in there somewhere?[/align:517f470783] When this story popped up on my computer my heart sank, I thought "here we go again." I cannot imagine what it was like for FDNY/EMS when they got this call. I am willing to give them a little slack on this one. Mistakes were made by both Fire and EMS personnel. No it was not picture perfect, but I am willing to bet there were times when we all did things that we wouldn't want on the cover of the New York Daily News. Peace, Marty :joker: Great post Marty. It's nice to see that someone was willing to post the entire story for us to see before passing judgement. I agree 100% with your feelings on the matter. Couldn't have said it better myself. Shane NREMT-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace844 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 "Scar," As always you make some great points. But again as you mentioned i will even point you to the later pictures you posted. Appropriate care still wasn't being provided, and with there being a doc present this makes it a worse tragedy that the appropriate means methods, and stabilization for this patient was not taking place. It just goes to show that sometimes in some instances... More information about the NYS statutes, etc.., can be found here:: I need some insight on a call. out here, ACE844 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncmedic309 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 "Scar," As always you make some great points. But again as you mentioned i will even point you to the later pictures you posted. Appropriate care still wasn't being provided, and with there being a doc present this makes it a worse tragedy that the appropriate means methods, and stabilization for this patient was not taking place. It just goes to show that sometimes in some instances... out here, ACE844 It just goes to show, this is about nothing more than bashing the fire services... Ace! Where you there man? If all your going off is the pictures and the media in this situation, you have no valid argument except your personal observation. And while that may mean everything to you, it may just mean diddly-squat to everyone else! My personal observation is much different, and I could give two-shits about what goes on in the fire services...please see my previous post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRPGfirerescuetech Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 "Scar," As always you make some great points. But again as you mentioned i will even point you to the later pictures you posted. Appropriate care still wasn't being provided, and with there being a doc present this makes it a worse tragedy that the appropriate means methods, and stabilization for this patient was not taking place. It just goes to show that sometimes in some instances... More information about the NYS statutes, etc.., can be found here:: I need some insight on a call. out here, ACE844 Explain your position on "appropriate care was not being provided" in reference to the latter pictures. PRPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace844 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Explain your position on "appropriate care was not being provided" in reference to the latter pictures. PRPG "PRPG," My initial post was based on the initial picture, of which "Herbie" asked what was wrong with said picture. I provided the comment and answered the question. Next, with the new pictures provided changed things somewhat and put the initial 'packaging' in a different light. But that doesn't preclude them from being fixed once one was in a safe area to 'fix' the treatment hastily provided to ensure it is properly applied to the patient. As far as care I say this; Was said patient's head immobilized with head blocks? Was the patient straightened out on the board and restrapped appropriately? Was said patient on O[sub:9848a3bcfe]2[/sub:9848a3bcfe]? Did the patient have 'a IV line' or lines in place? Was Fluid running or blood drawn? Did they apply a cardiac monitor? Was the pateint 'stripped' and checked for 'hidden injuries or puncture wounds?' when the stokes and board were imporperly secured was it fixed prior to transport in those pics?..... Not in the ones I see.... All very BASIC standards of trauma care and also taught to the docs and ALL OF US IN TRAMA ASSESSMENT 101 'MULTIPLE TIMES' THE DOCS GET IT IN ATLS. Just to name a few off of the top of my head. All of the providers and clinicians present should know better. out here, ACE844 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace844 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 It just goes to show, this is about nothing more than bashing the fire services... Ace! Where you there man? If all your going off is the pictures and the media in this situation, you have no valid argument except your personal observation. And while that may mean everything to you, it may just mean diddly-squat to everyone else! My personal observation is much different, and I could give two-shits about what goes on in the fire services...please see my previous post... "ncmedic309," The initial post was asked about the initial picture.... nothing more. The whole thread is based on 'personal observation' of the provided pic. Hence the initial question of Sarge, I'm equal opportunity.... It doesn't matter, paid, volunteer, martian, whatever. As long as you provide competent quality patient care to all accepeted standards and guidelines. It isn't happening, thus these providers should pay the price! Period. There is no excuse for inegligence, incompetence, laziness, etc.... So no double standard here... ACE844 Out here, ACE844 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRPGfirerescuetech Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 1. The patients head was secured in an appropriate manner when the team reached EMS in an area which was no longer a clearly dangerous place. Look at the pics again. 2. The board was properly secured to the board (or vice versa actually) at the time where the subject reached EMS. Beyond the rapid extrication stage, when EMS care could be delivered. 3. Patient lines and exposure? There is absolutely no reason why they couldnt wait 2 minutes and get him to the truck. Stopping in the middle of the street to expose this patient and start IV's is a ridiculous notion when they are no longer entrapped and their apparatus is close by. 4. The only issue present they did not do and should have was utilize the damn O2 bottle at his head for something more than extra weight to make the FD carry. Thats all i got. PRPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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