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Jo, two people....recently leave for shifts.... Y'know firing isn't the same as leaving, right? ;-)

I didn't know you were fired? :shock: I thought you banished yourself to Vermont. :lol:

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I don't have a problem with testing new personnel, but I do have a problem with some of these Old Bicarb Medics trying to keep things the way they were in the 1970's & 1980's.

We can improve EMS education and improve the quality of care without resorting to using some of the old outdated methods :!:

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I don't have a problem with testing new personnel, but I do have a problem with some of these Old Bicarb Medics trying to keep things the way they were in the 1970's & 1980's.

We can improve EMS education and improve the quality of care without resorting to using some of the old outdated methods :!:

Actually, if we had some more of these, there wouldn't be as much whining. Usually these people entered the field to actually work and knew they were expected to perform patient care!. The education criteria even in the basic material was much more comprehensive than it is now. At least then, Paramedics knew Kreb's cycle and K+ pump theories, and did not have to have a "critical care" rating, to know such. Please compare ACLS standard of course content and testing material of the 80's with today's version. It is like the difference of college material versus kindergarten material... when was the last time you could ask a recent participant to explain oxyhemoglobin curve? Yes, there used to be questions on that...

You knew if you were employed, you would have to know what to do. It is NOT your employers job to prepare you for the workforce! It is their job to improve on your skills, and education level. Every one should have the minimal level of taking care of patients, if you did not, it is because your education facility did not prepare you for the job.

Yes, emergency medicine is on-going learning process. Yes, you learn to "hone" your skills, and continuously improve in areas. It is totally irresponsible that a basic EMT cannot perform an adequate assessment on a medical call or trauma call and provide care for stabilization until either arrival of ALS or to an appropriate setting. The memorization of acronyms, check box skills, has done nothing but made little robots unable to understand emergency medicine.

As many in here has acknowledged education is the key.. but this needs to be done prior to job deployment. Increased clinical hours, with approved preceptors. Just having the patch apparently has not made it a successful program.

We cannot be compared with other health-care profession that allows "internships" or "fellowships", our graduates are expected to be able to perform adequate care immediately haivng autonomous responsibility. Since this is not a controlled setting, it is not feasible for EMS services to provide a "mentor" in the back of every EMS unit for 6 months up to 1 year until the new Paramedic has experience. To off-set this we need increase clinical hours with clinical professors and approved field preceptors. Stringent adherence to the clinical objectives needs to be made, with a increase of failure of the program if the participant did not either complete or failed their clinical objectives.

Last week, I had a Paramedic student with me. Very lacking in assessment skills, pharmacology knowledge, and still unaware of even how to properly apply the leads in ECG monitoring (yes, he will graduate in 4 weeks). What even makes it more confusing or disappointing, this student works full time with an ALS service, for over 5 years. His excuse was.. "I just drive, I am a basic"..

When informing his instructor of his poor knowledge & demonstration of skills, the typical response was "oh well, he will learn it, when he gets out there".. My question is how many patients.. has to die before he gets it or learns ? This was not a atypical situation, this is unfortunately is an every day occurrence with students from various facilities, not just one.

The desire to learn as well as the individual knowing the responsibility of what their chosen job is has to come from the student or recent employee. We as employers or FTO can only motivate, and promote, and provide the information. The old saying : you can lead the horse to water, but you can't make them drink" .. applies.

BE safe,

R/r 911

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Because of a combination of the "cool" factor and the abysmally low entry standards, a huge percentage of the newcomers this so-called "profession" draws are complete losers. The professionals try hard to run off the losers who are screwing up the profession.

Totally agree with you Dust. Education requirements have been lowered because there isn't anyone who wants to work for EMS. Everyone in my department is going to the fire side for the $$$. We have lost about half of our good paramedics and more are leaving after contract negotiations if they don't go well. Me, being the EMT, is now stuck with brand new, green, pimple faced paramedics who have never seen the outside of a classroom. They may have more training/education than me, but that doesn't mean they always know what they are doing. I've had several new partners who love to treat the monitor without even checking the patient. When I ask questions as to why they performed a certain procedure I get the paragod answer of I'm in charge and you're just an EMT so go clean the truck. I've been in emergency/urgent care for almost 10 years, I don't take that crap from newbies with no experience. I've ticked off a few new paragods by writing them up...

This is why we eat our young....they are too stupid/young/egotistical to listen to advise/constructive critisism from those of us that do have common sense and experience.

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I have been in EMS 9 mo. When I frist started the Paramedics and other EMT tested me. At times made me fill like a piece a Sh(&. But would you know after some time of them doing that it made me fill better about the job a I do. It's my turn now

has some one else said it's done to cast out the crap and to keep the good. I have found myself testing and riding other new EMT's not that I'm bad as& because it done every were

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When starting out, I was in class with a teacher who told me #1 girls had no business being in fire and ems, #2 no girl had ever passed his class. I was given the hardest way to go of anyone in my class. I was the youngest (have been for every service I've worked and still am), given what everyone told me was the worst preceptor, and told to have fun. I quickly found out why my preceptor had the reputation he did. He expected excellence from his students. Half A**ing it wouldn't cut it with him. You were expected to know what was going on and why. Other students praised how easy they had it with their preceptors while I often came home frustrated wondering if I would ever know enough. If I didn't know my drugs, I spent the first part of my day writing drug cards until I knew them. He would pull out a drug and ask me, "what's this do, dose, side effects, reversal agent, indications, contraindications". Many times, even on long boring transports I would be quizzed. I'll never forget my first one (I was a BRAND new basic student) and we were in the ambulance with a guy going for a routine transfer. I took vitals, checked everything, and settled in to do my paperwork. We got to the hospital, unloaded our patient who had slept most of the trip, and were hanging out behind the ambulance talking with another crew. He asked me, "what did you miss?" I thought through everything and couldn't think of anything really. Then he told me think how the patient breathed when he slept. I thought back, he had sleep apnea. Yes, my preceptor was tough on me as was my instructor but I was just as determined to make it. I have tremendous respect for my preceptor and still ask him about things to this day. He really pushed me to have great assessment skills, listen to my patients, and most importantly treat them not what I see on a monitor or elsewhere. I still think my instructor was a jerk, but I proved him wrong. Out of my class, half of them ended up quitting by the end of their basic ride time, a quarter quit partway through the series for different reasons, and out of a class of 25, 6 of us graduated. I'm now getting students (basics mind you) to ride with and I am applying for my instructor's card and yes, I'm tough on them, but I also keep an open mind and remember when I first started. I answer any questions and try to find answers if I don't know. I think my education was invaluable and I only hope I can provide that to others. Frankly I think the path to EMS is too easy. One must remember, these are HUMAN lives we are dealing with here, not mannequins. If we don't treat them right, they die. Hard but cruel lesson to learn. Some weeding does need to occur to get good professionals in this job.

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The public education system in this country is in such as mess that students are not learning the basic skills that they need to function in the real world :!: It is not their fault that they were not taught certain concepts and ideas in school :!:

It is also not their fault that they are not being taught certain concepts, ideas and skills in EMT and/or Paramedic class :!: It is the EMS Administrators, EMS Agencies, EMS Employers, EMS Instructors, and EMS Medical Directors faults for not demanding that the educational standards be improved :!:

It wasn't that long ago that old MICPs were given a bag of drugs, an EOA and a 40 Lb heart monitor and sent out to into the field :!:

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^

True, but the student also has some responsibility in the matter. What you do outside of class is just as important, if not more, then what you do inside. Yes, class should be longer, but what is stopping the EMT-B from picking up a H&P or neurobio book? Nothing but themselves.

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^

True, but the student also has some responsibility in the matter. What you do outside of class is just as important, if not more, then what you do inside. Yes, class should be longer, but what is stopping the EMT-B from picking up a H&P or neurobio book? Nothing but themselves.

Well said! That is just about what it all comes down to. Self education. =D>
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