some emt-b courses better than others? bay area

[cariblil]

hi.

i'm about to sign up for an emt-b course in the bay area and i have a couple to choose from. are there any questions that i should ask before picking one over the other? or are they about the same?

both are accredited: one is at the city college of san fran, and the other is at napa valley college.

i am also battling the stress of my dad who is telling me straight up that this is a stupid idea, i won't get a job, and if i do, it'll be at minimum wage. i go back and forth of being REALLY super excited(reading up on emtcity entries) to "is this really a good idea?"(also reading up on emtcity). some moral support and advice would be great..

[Dustdevil]

i'm about to sign up for an emt-b course in the bay area and i have a couple to choose from. are there any questions that i should ask before picking one over the other? or are they about the same?

both are accredited: one is at the city college of san fran, and the other is at napa valley college.

I would start by asking Napa Valley College why, if they are accredited, their name does not appear on any public list of nationally accredited schools. Me thinks either you are confused as to what accreditation is, or else NVC has some explaining to do. If they claim they have applied and are awaiting accreditation, find out which agency they are awaiting accreditation from and call that agency to confirm it. They're apparently already been caught in one lie. I don't think I'd take their word on anything else.

The most important things you will want to ask of schools you apply to are:

• 1. How long is the school? And we're talking contact hours here, not weeks or months. Actual contact hours is the ONLY way to evaluate the length of a school. For example, if school A is four months long and provides 120 contact hours of instruction, it would not be as "long" (or as good) as school B who provides 240 hours in six weeks. If there is no significant difference in total hours, they both schools are in the running. If one is significantly more than the other, than the lower one is to be completely disregarded.

2. How many of those hours are classroom. How many are clinical. And how many are ride time? Yes, I know that everybody wants to get out and get their hands dirty. That's why you're joining the field. But in EMT-B, clinical and ride time are pretty close to pointless. It's just a first aid course. There is darn little first aid provided on an ambulance, and almost none in the ER, that you will get to be involved in or benefit from. The classroom and lab are knowledge. Knowledge is your primary tool. Field exposure becomes important at the paramedic level. At the EMT level, your hours are better spent gaining critical knowledge and leaving the so-called "experience" to your employer. If a school is skimping on class time in order to turn out seasoned stretcher operators, forget them.

3. What are the qualifications of the instructors? And I don't mean the program coordinator who you will probably never see because he sits behind a desk all day and leaves instruction to a bunch of off-duty firemen. Who are the actual instructors who will be teaching you? Is the person who is responsible for teaching you physiology and pharmacology a fireman who went to a 6 month paramedic school? Or is he/she a Registered Nurse with a degree and significant education as well as educational experience? Obviously, I shouldn't have to point out the difference between the two.

4. What is the first-time National Registry exam pass rate for their students? You'd be amazed how many schools that look great have half their students fail the registry exam every semester. Chances are, you don't want to go to that school.

5. What services or resources does the school offer those who need extra help passing the Registry exam after a failure?

6. Does the school leave it's lab and resources open for students to come and go for extra curricular practice before class, or on non-class days? Laboratory -- not field practise -- is where you will learn the most and get the most understanding of your skills.

7. Where do the graduates of this school end up working? Does the faculty claim a high employment rate for their graduates? With whom? Are those employers anybody you have any interest or possibility of working for?

8. Do employers in the area respect this school and its graduates? Call them and find out. Are those employers anybody you have any interest or possibility of working for?

9. Will completion of the course result in transferable college credit?

10. Do they make you wear a ridiculous looking uniform? (hint: if you have to buy it at a uniform shoppe, it is probably ridiculous looking.)

Your dad is right. It is an extremely stupid idea. And yes, you are not likely to make a decent living wage, especially in Norcal. To quote a great philosopher, "This isn't a career. It's a hobby." Being a Paramedic is barely a career. Being an EMT is nothing but a step towards being a Paramedic. Damn few communities in NorCal even utilise EMT's in their EMS system. In fact, most communities in California have their firemen provide the service, so there are no EMS jobs for EMT's. Those few jobs that do exist are heavily competed for by the thousands of people just like you who get cranked out of the community colleges every year with no idea whatsoever where they will work. Consequently, job prospects are extremely low, and the glut of candidates keeps wages even lower. Supply and demand. So, quite honestly, the very best prospect you have after graduation -- if you're hott -- is a poverty wage driving a private company ambulance to carry non-acutely ill patients that the fire department has already decided is not worth their time to a hospital or nursing home. No blood and guts. No lights and sirens. No glory. No satisfaction. No thanks from anybody. And not enough money to live in a decent apartment or drive a decent car in SF. And that's only if you're smokin' hott.

If you're a low-IQ high school dropout with no serious educational prospects and parents who can't afford to get you a better education and future, and you're not hott, then find a government job where you get union wages and can sit on your arse and retire in twenty years. Bus drivers get paid twice what an EMT gets paid, a cooler uniform, and a career they can retire from.

If your parents are loaded and can be counted on to support you the rest of your life, or if you simply can't overcome the erroneous impression you got from watching too much "Turd Watch" and "Paramedics" that being an EMT is exciting and glamorous, then go for it. You might find a job as a non-emergency transfer ambulance driver somewhere within a year. It sucks. It's not anything like what you saw on television. It's a boring grunt job. Within five years you will either get tired of it and wish you had those five years of your life back, or else you'll get serious and finish Paramedic school and move someplace where you can actually get a job, if you can afford it. But even then, chances are it will be a crap wage, and your dad will still be disappointed in you. And you will too.

Good luck!

[rcmedic]

hi.

i'm about to sign up for an emt-b course in the bay area and i have a couple to choose from. are there any questions that i should ask before picking one over the other? or are they about the same?

both are accredited: one is at the city college of san fran, and the other is at napa valley college.

If you're in the North Bay, have you considered Santa Rosa Junior College's Dept of Public Safety? http://www.sonic.net/srtc/

[cariblil]

i checked the source where napa valley college was posted:

http://www.emsa.cahwnet.gov/para/approved_trng_progs.xls

seems their accreditation site is a little outdated! thanks for the heads up.

there are two programs at ccsf, both with (1) required ride-along with the option for more if they are available.

emt100 is a 12 unit course -- 15 hours a week

http://www.ccsf.edu/Departments/Health_PE/...T@JohnAdams.pdf

emt101 is a 6.5 unit course -- 8 hours a week

http://www.ccsf.edu/Departments/Health_PE/...EvansCampus.pdf

the reason i put this up is because i can't really take the longer course even though i want to because i am taking other pre-reqs for paramedic academy alongside the emt course. but i talked with the prof and they said both will lead up to certification, just the shorter class is more intense.

what is your best suggestion for making me most competitive among the sea of newbies? (other than being "hott")

srjc's program is a year long rather than a semester, for emt. i want to get into it as fast as i can and test out the waters but a year is quite a commitment to come out as emt-b..

thanks for the straight-up advice. keep it coming.

[Dustdevil]

i checked the source where napa valley college was posted:

http://www.emsa.cahwnet.gov/para/approved_trng_progs.xls

seems their accreditation site is a little outdated! thanks for the heads up.

That site does not list accreditation. It only lists schools approved by the state EMS department, best I can tell. Accreditation is a whole 'nother animal. Any school can give you a patch. Schools that are accredited are recognised as going above and beyond the minimal standards to provide students with a quality educational experience. I assume quality is what you are looking for.

There are two lists of accredited schools, based at the websites of the accrediting agencies. They are:

http://www.coaemsp.org/accreditatedprograms.htm

http://www.coaemsp.org/accreditatedprograms.htm

• While national accreditation is certainly not a guarantee of superiour school, it is very much a step in the right direction, and those who do not have it should definitely be asked why not in order to test their commitment to quality.

the reason i put this up is because i can't really take the longer course even though i want to because i am taking other pre-reqs for paramedic academy alongside the emt course. but i talked with the prof and they said both will lead up to certification, just the shorter class is more intense.

What prerequisites are you taking? Hopefully things like Anatomy & Physiology, General and Child Psychology, English, and Communications. No offence, but you could definitely benefit from a course in keyboarding too if you intend to become a medical professional and be taken seriously. If your school is not requiring the above courses, I would be very sceptical of their quality.

And yes, as I said before, the calendar length of your course is almost completely irrelevant. The factor to be considered is the hour length. The school with the most hours wins, no matter how long or short the calendar length may be.

what is your best suggestion for making me most competitive among the sea of newbies? (other than being "hott")

That is very much a matter of local norms, really. Remember, you are in a flooded job market in NorCal. You have no value whatsoever. You're just one of ten-thousand EMT-B's there competing for very few jobs. Consequently, employers can demand the very best and be very choosy. That means they may only hire those who are seasoned and have plenty of experience. On the other hand, there are managers out there like myself who prefer new grads to old burnouts because they have no bad habits to be broken and can be easier trained to function within their own agency's policies than somebody who is used to "how we always did it back east." Consequently, again, it is time to get on the phone and start doing an elementary job market survey. Find out who the employers are. Talk to the people there that do the hiring. Ask them these questions. It will vary from agency to agency.

Again, you are just a number in a sea of patches. There really isn't any sure-fire way to make yourself stand out in a positive way. But there are definitely ways to hedge your bets.

First, make sure you attend the BEST school, not just the shortest school. Those employers know which schools are turning out good EMT's and which ones are just turning out patches. Don't fool yourself into believing they think all patches are the same. Would you choose a doctor who went to a 3 year med school in Mexico City over one who went to four years of med school at Stanford? Of course not. And employers will look at your educational record the very same way.

Second, present a professional resume. At the very least, do considerable research online regarding resume writing so you can get an idea of how one should look. Even better, check out some books on it. Even better, consult with an English or Communications professor at your college for assistance. Even better, have it done by a professional. You are definitely going to have to put more effort into it than you put into your posts here.

Third, and most important, be prepared for interviews. There is a topic in the "Frequently Asked Questions" section of this board regarding interview techniques, as well as multiple other topics covering interviews and interview questions. Search for them and read them. Be prepared. Also be prepared to answer medical questions, both in an interview and probably on a written exam administered by the employer (which goes back to the quality of your education. The faster school may give you a patch, but will you learn enough for your knowledge to stand out from the rest? If not, you've wasted your money.). The Speech-Communications class that you SHOULD be taking will cover much of this, including both resumes and interview techniques. Don't blow it off. That patch is useless if you can't get a job! Two other interview issues: KNOW the company you are applying for. Know as much as possible about them ahead of time. Sound like you've done your homework. And also, have a MUCH better answer to the question, "why do you want to be in EMS" than the old, worn out lie, "I just want to help people." I won't hire anybody who feeds me that BS.

I don't know if you have any plan or desire to entire the fire service, but if you don't, you are even more limited in your job prospects in NorCal than otherwise. Chances of you finding a real, 911 EMS job with your EMT-B certificate straight out of school are next to non-existent. Regardless, if you are interested in the fire service, that is NOT something that will impress potential employers. If your goal is to attend the fire academy, or if you are taking fire service classes at the junior college, I wouldn't be displaying that on your resume or applications, or mentioning it in interviews with non-fire providers. Would you hire somebody who only intended to use you for a temporary paycheck while they looked for a better job? Of course not.

You only get one chance to make a first impression. Don't blow it by not preparing, both educationally and personally.

I'm afraid I have to repeat myself here. You ABSOLUTELY MUST get on the computer and the phone and do an INTENSE and EXHAUSTIVE job market analysis before you even think of laying down hundreds, if not thousands of dollars for a stupid EMT course. And, especially in NorCal, I think if you do such an analysis and look at the results critically, you will find that your dad is right. It's a stupid idea. My true advice is to either move or find a less stupid idea for a career.

Good luck!

[RogueMedic]

[/font:705c472c61] It appears that my colleagues have the school thing covered with very knowledgeable and sound advice. I submit that should there ever come a time that your Father needs EMS intervention (And I pray that he never does) that it there is still someone employed in the business.

No matter which school that you decide upon, the outcome will depend greatly on how you apply yourself and what you take from it. If yopu focus on the visions of lights and sirens wailing in the night, you'll fail, if you stay focused on airway, breathing, circulation, for starters and build on that, the EMS World will be a much nicer place because you are in it.

There's my two cents. RogueMedic