Pesky bystanders and stupid people who want to take CPR...

[cotjockey]

Yesterday was a busy day for our small volunteer service...seven calls in 24 hours...we usually don't get that many in a week. Our first call was a woman who is very well known to us, she was sitting in a restaurant parking lot in a very nice hypoglycemic state. I arrived on scene first, since I was at the restaurant two blocks away. As I approached the scene, I saw an RN who I know rather well trying to talk to the patient. I identified myself (even though she knows who I am) and asked her to step aside. She looked at me like I asked her to get naked or something and stated, "But I am an RN." I sort of rolled my eyes and said, "I know that, but I am a paramedic." She again replied, "But I am an RN" to which I replied, "But I have D50." She again gave me that sort of dazed and confused look and said, "What is the D50 for?" At which point the police officer on scene told her to get out of my way. She watched as we moved the patient to our ambulance, tried to get in as we pulled her coat over her head so we could get to her arms and find a vein, and then stood in the doorway of the ambulance, asking if we had called for an order to give the D50...I told her to move and closed the door.

So...we get the patient safely to the hospital and as we are finishing paperwork, I hear my name being paged over the intercom. Since I don't work there anymore and most people who know me know my cell phone number, I was a bit confused. I pick up the extension and hear a voice on the other end saying, "Yeah, will you pick me up?" "What?" I asked. "Yeah, this is Mary, and you are supposed to do my CPR class today, and I need a ride. Do you know where I live so you can pick me up?" "Umm...we generally don't provide transportation for CPR students." "But I'm going to pay for the class," she says. "I'm not picking you up...that is not part of the deal...besides, my car is in the shop and I don't think my husband should have to provide transportation for my CPR students." She starts to sniffle and says, "So, what time are you going to pick me up?" "I'm not," I said as I hung up the phone. Mary is an interesting duck...I'm pretty sure she has some sort of diagnosable medical condition that causes her to be a bit slow mentally, but I can't say for sure. She used to date three of our "civilian firefighters" (people who get to say they are members without training, fighting fire, etc...they usually make food runs and help us wash trucks) who are all mentally challenged. She has taken CPR from four other instructors and has not been able to pass the written or the practical. She just doesn't get it...and I was her last hope. She is a "comfort aide" (she passes ice water, empties trash, visits with residents) in a local nursing home and says she is going to go to RN school.

I suppose I could have picked her up...I'm just postponing the inevitable, because I know I am going to have to do a one-on-one class with her eventually, but I was in no mood to do it. She makes designs on the exam paper instead of answering the questions or tries to make all of the answers 'C' or something every time she takes the written test. She sticks her tongue in Annie's mouth and makes moaning noises when she tries the practical. I am enough of a witch that the other instructors felt she wouldn't pull the games with me.

Sigh...I am off to pray that she finds someone else to do her class...and that she never takes care of me if she makes it to RN school.

Thanks for listening to me whine / complain / vent / etc...

[hammerpcp]

Very entertaining story. Thank you for sharing. Well written also, ever think of wirtting a book?

[cotjockey]

Very entertaining story. Thank you for sharing. Well written also, ever think of wirtting a book?

LOL...it left me shaking my head. I don't think I could write a book...I do talk a lot though!

[xselerate]

to which I replied, "But I have D50." She again gave me that sort of dazed and confused look and said, "What is the D50 for?" ..... and then stood in the doorway of the ambulance, asking if we had called for an order to give the D50...I told her to move and closed the door.

LMFAO Dear God.... cotjockey you have made my day... thank you so much! LOL LOL LOL

[Katee]

I can agree with you on the part of your topic description about "stupid people". "Civilian firefighters.." thats a good term, will you sue me if I use it? Hehe.

We had our annual "Daytona 500 Racing Party" at the fire department today. I was left in charge of four stations, in which I had two people to "help" me. Well, wouldn't you know that I got stuck with the most retarded person in the world. I'm not kidding you, this kid can't count, he can't read, can't follow directions repeated to him five times... I'm sure you get the picture. He just doesn't stinkin' listen. ](*,)

Oh did I mention, he's not a firefighter either? Civilian firefighter fits the description.

Anyway, enough about my "stupid people" experience of the day.

Great story by the way... sounds like you had a "real interesting time"... You should think about writing a book or something lol.

[Ridryder 911]

WOW ! What an inappropriate way to deal with people!

Ever heard of customer service ?

First, after the RN was inhibiting your treatment< I suggest that you get the patient into your unit.. close the doors, and thank her. Simple... If she continued, I would tell her I am going to have to "ask you to leave, again thanks good-bye".

For the person about the CPR.. did you refer her call to someone ? Sounds like the person was confused, time to shift it someone whom could answer her questions. Remember the old saying "it takes 10 people to compliment to replace one bad mouthing"...

Sorry, I believe it should be handled more diplomatically, and appropriately. Although these people do GET ON OUR NERVES.. we need to try to handle it more professionally. Especially, a volunteer service is more dependent on the attitudes and respect of the local community.

This is the second or so post you have an encounter with "nurse" in a negative tone. You list yourself as a former ICU nurse (what license level ?) It tends to appear that there is definitely problems between EMS and nursing, that is a shame since both goals should be the same.

Be safe,

R/R 911

[cotjockey]

WOW ! What an inappropriate way to deal with people!

Ever heard of customer service ?

First, after the RN was inhibiting your treatment< I suggest that you get the patient into your unit.. close the doors, and thank her. Simple... If she continued, I would tell her I am going to have to "ask you to leave, again thanks good-bye".

For the person about the CPR.. did you refer her call to someone ? Sounds like the person was confused, time to shift it someone whom could answer her questions. Remember the old saying "it takes 10 people to compliment to replace one bad mouthing"...

Sorry, I believe it should be handled more diplomatically, and appropriately. Although these people do GET ON OUR NERVES.. we need to try to handle it more professionally. Especially, a volunteer service is more dependent on the attitudes and respect of the local community.

This is the second or so post you have an encounter with "nurse" in a negative tone. You list yourself as a former ICU nurse (what license level ?) It tends to appear that there is definitely problems between EMS and nursing, that is a shame since both goals should be the same.

Be safe,

R/R 911

When I bring a patient to the ER, I give report, help transfer the patient to the ER cot, and get out of the way. I honestly expect the same from bystanders...especially those that know they can't do anything for the patient when we, as EMS providers can. We couldn't have gotten the patient out of the car because she was standing right there in the doorway and wouldn't move...we couldn't even get close enough to check a pulse...and the passenger door was locked and she didn't seem to hear us when we asked her to unlock it. This RN is one that has no emergency experience, so I'm not sure why she wouldn't let us have access to the patient or why she was coming over to our ambulance to ask us if we had permission to do what we were doing. We have a protocol for what we do, so most of the time, we don't need to call for an order. When the patient is crashing and has a blood glucose of 24 and horrible veins, is not the time for us to explain that to another medical professional. Having someone who people in the community know is an RN (and a very good and respected one) question what we are doing puts us in a bad light...it makes people think we are just going off all willy-nilly and sticking needles into people and injecting medication. There are people in the community who will think that...we've had more than one phone call about it. She couldn't do anything for the patient...she should have backed off when EMS arrived. I don't interfere in her world, she shouldn't interfere in mine.

As for my ICU experience...I am an LPN that worked in ICU, practicing under mainly my paramedic license. It was a disaster from the word go and looking back, it honestly seems like it was set up to fail. When I was in the hospital, I had to get permission from an RN to do anything with my patients (which is not unreasonable, since I am an LPN) many of whom had never titrated a drip, can't read an EKG, or whatever. A lot of the other nurses did not understand how my scope of practice differed from the other LPNs...it was explained a dozen times or more, but I consistently had other nurses telling me I could not start IVs, I could not document what I saw on an EKG, and that I did not have the knowledge to decide that the dopamine needed to be titrated up or down. I was always under the impression that I was good enough to do it in the ambulance, I was good enough to ask for advice when they wanted it, but I didn't dare go off on my own and tell someone their patient was in a complete heart block, because I am "only an LPN." But...when they asked me to interp a strip or weren't sure what to do with the rhythm, I was their person to go to. Yeah, it makes me angry...I thought this was a good place to vent.

And the CPR class...we have a ton of snow and ice on the ground and I don't like driving in it myself...I certainly don't want to take the chance of getting in a crash with someone else in my car. I'm a bit paranoid about that. Even if I didn't feel that way, my car was in the shop, so my husband was stuck driving me around...he wasn't really happy about driving me up the street for the EMS call, he would have come unglued if he has to pick up one of my CPR students. I'm not sure who else I could have had her call...we don't have taxis, we don't have buses, and the ministers and church groups who give people rides for things only do it for medical appointments, grocery shopping, etc...their service is not for someone who wants to take a CPR class and ran out of gas or whatever happened to her car. This person has taken the CPR class from four other people and she ends up messing around all through the class...she'll sing during the videos, talk on her cell phone during lectures, make designs on the answer sheet instead of trying to fill in actual answers, and pretends to have sex with the manikins. She has made passes at two of the male instructors and since I am the only female instructor, they thought it would be best for me to try and get her through. Some of the other instructors feel like they have to put up with her antics since she is paying for the class...since I don't charge my CPR students, I would have been very comfortable telling her that if she was not willing to take the class seriously and do what needed to be done, she would need to reschedule for a time that she was willing to be serious. I honestly don't know what else to do with her...they don't teach you how to deal with students like her in the instructor class. I could have been more diplomatic and probably should have, but either way, I was not going to pick her up...I don't appreciate the sense of entitlement...I was already going to do the class fro free, I was already going to pay for her card, I was already giving up half of my Saturday to help her out.

[Juice]

cotjockey said nilly-willy

hehe

[Just Plain Ruff]

I agree with Rid on this one. In my opinion - the attitude posted stinks. You openly were rude to the RN on scene. I didn't see you writing that you asked her for what she found while you were driving to the scene? How did you know the patient was diabetic? You don't state that you checked the Blood sugar.

As for your student, yes she's a pain yet she seems like she is trying and wants to get her cpr cert. Even though she sounds like a total moron you also don't want to deal with her and you do offer your services for free so you can refuse to teach her. Some people are just not cut out to learn cpr. Just don't agree to teach her.

How would you have treated a doc on the scene, the same way? I hope not.

I cannot say what happened on the scene but your posting here makes you look like you are a smart mouthed paramedic. And like Rid said, this is the second time you've had a run in with a nurse, be it the same one or not, it sure sounds like you have issues with Nurses.

Just my two cents.

By the way, if I was a supervisor and heard you speak that way to a Nurse who was trying to help I'd have given you 3 days off without pay and a mark on your personnel record.

[xselerate]

I'm sorry but I have to agree with cotjockey.... kinda. I would expect a nurse to step aside for me but I would also try to get a history from her. And when people don't step aside from me and allow me to do what I need to do then I have them remove. That's that. I also have no problem requesting a boss to come and tell them to step aside. My customer service skills are unmatched... but they are for the customer, my patient, not for bystanders and not for off duty medical personell that don't have there own medical license with which to work under ( nurses still need doctors to work under ).