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trackmedic

Narcan at the EMT level.

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I'm not sure we are on the same page here but I agree with you. My post was sarcasm in an effort to get the individual to see what they were saying didn't make sense.

Where don't we agree?  Take the sarcasm out and maybe we do agree, or maybe we don't.  I'm good with either.  

Edited by Ruffmeister Paramedic

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Where don't we agree?  Take the sarcasm out and maybe we do agree, or maybe we don't.  I'm good with either.  

Then what was your point in quoting my post...?

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Getting back on topic here, while it is not evidence based there is plenty of anecdotal evidence of the success Narcan has had when used by non-medical people.

http://www.patriotledger.com/article/20141008/NEWS/141006435

https://www.bjatraining.org/naloxone/what-are-some-success-stories-law-enforcement-overdose-reversal-programs

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-state-police-narcan-heroin-20150801-story.html

Some of the info stated in the stories isn't accurate (Narcan has no down side) and there is no discussion of anyone developing side effects.

Here is an article published in American Journal of Public Health

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2661437/

 

Edited by ERDoc

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Then what was your point in quoting my post...?

I didn't quote you, I referenced you when giving a simple anecdote.  

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Both anecdotally and documented, "Junkies" have exhibited violent tendencies towards someone who ruins their "high" with Narcan. Unlike EMTs and Paramedics, First Responder Firefighters, and civilians (read as friends and family), LEOs have the equipment, training, and perhaps the most important of all, the authorization to "handle" such attempts at violence.

Edited by Richard B the EMT

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Both anecdotally and documented, "Junkies" have exhibited violent tendencies towards someone who ruins their "high" with Narcan. Unlike EMTs and Paramedics, First Responder Firefighters, and civilians (read as friends and family), LEOs have the equipment, training, and perhaps the most important of all, the authorization to "handle" such attempts at violence.

How frequently do these violent tendencies occur? Can you find any statistics?

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We're allowed to carry it, we don't. The state recommended auto injectors. These things cost about $860. Not happening. State Police have it, issued, for free. They won't use it. Control the airway. I can buy a hell of a lot of BVM's for $860. That's exactly what I said during the EMS Advisory Committee meeting. Keep them breathing; and let the medics give them just enough to sustain life.. Our biggest problem has been people using K2, Spice, etc. There is a known heroin ring, and problem, but we have yet to see any OD's. - Now south of us, you'll hear three or four OD-Arrests in a clip.

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How frequently do these violent tendencies occur? Can you find any statistics?

Anecdotally I can say I've only ever had to sedate one overdose patient after administering naloxone in the last 7 1/2 years. As we later discovered this particular patient had a long standing history of violent/aggressive behaviour directed toward LEOs and Paramedics.

In my own experience the key to preventing violence and aggression with these patients is to correct hypoxia prior to bringing them up. This however does beg the question as to whether or not a lay person should be administering naloxone. Lay people won't be providing ventilation or oxygen prior to administration.

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ODEMS the people who write the protocols in Virginia just gave EMT-B's the ability to Give Abuterol and Narcan in the new protocol book. I doubt my agency will let us do this though as we are not even given auto inject eppie on our trucks ... Ahhh the life of an EMT-B in a world of ALS.<_<

Edited by vonk

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I, like a few others I've seen posting, am still on the fence with this. Yes, I see huge benefits to allowing public, LEO, &/or EMT use of Narcan. I also see many of the negatives to that provision. Narcan given IN is great, but based on personal experience alone, I saw no difference in the speed at which it reversed the opioid effects of some poor soul. 

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