MikeEMT Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 So Mike, what if the guy is not willing to be talked down, what kind of take down's are you willing to use? Consider this scenario- You walk into the bedroom and then guy now is now in the doorway and you are stuck in the bedroom. There are too many variables to consider for me to accurately answer the question. Suffice it to say that I would use the techniques I was taught in the police academy to try and talk him down. If it came to where physical intervention was necessary then I would do whatever I had to to keep me and my partner alive. While I have been involved in conflict resolution and have talked suicidal people down in the past I have never had a situation such as this where other lives were on the line. While I am confident I would be able to talk myself out of the situation - reality has a way of not working out according to plan. We were taught to use whatever necessary to save our lives. If it comes down to a "fight for life" then you have nothing to lose because if you don't do anything you will die. Keep in mind that I don't believe in "heroics" or the "John Wayne" syndrome. While I probably have a couple hundred hours of this training under my belt I am in no way qualified to make a diagnosis or to act as a negotiator. Nor am I qualified to offer any advice or training to others. My training was designed for law enforcement and not EMS. If I were in this situation and had to use the physical, hands on, aspect of my training (going beyond the verbal judo stage) then I would likely be fired from my job after this situation was resolved. I would rather be alive and looking for another job than having my employer make funeral arrangements for me. I would strongly encourage any EMS provider should, at a minimum, take verbal judo training classes. Verbal judo is a key component in conflict resolution and many law enforcement entities will train EMS and Fire in verbal judo. I hope that this is a scenario that never comes to fruition but sadly I think its only a matter of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Plain Ruff Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 Mike, Excellent response. And Yes, this is a scenario that has miraculously never happened. Let's keep it on internet pixels shalt we. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeEMT Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Mike, Excellent response. And Yes, this is a scenario that has miraculously never happened. Let's keep it on internet pixels shalt we. Thank you, and yes lets keep it on the internet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
island emt Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Actually: it did happen in Upstate NY a couple years ago . One EMS provider was killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellsBells Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 My training was designed for law enforcement and not EMS. If I were in this situation and had to use the physical, hands on, aspect of my training (going beyond the verbal judo stage) then I would likely be fired from my job after this situation was resolved. I would rather be alive and looking for another job than having my employer make funeral arrangements for me. Really? If you had to take down an assaliant with a gun to save your own life, your agency would terminate you? On what grounds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Plain Ruff Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 Really? If you had to take down an assaliant with a gun to save your own life, your agency would terminate you? On what grounds? I tend to agree, if my agency fired me for doing that, I'd tell them to F off and then let the entire world know that they fired me for trying to save my own life. It would not be pretty. I'm sure an informational picket outside their front door on the public right of way would be a great way to get the word out that said agency was a shitty place to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scubanurse Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 It happened where I worked too... Medics ended up jumping out the second story window and both were injured but alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneEMTP Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 As said before, by Kate and Mike I think, it's too hard to say. Asking what to do with this guy is kind of like saying, "What would you do with a drunk patient?" How drunk is he? Only drunk? Is he an angry drunk? Weepy drunk? Drunk enough to get in his own way? Etc, etc... (Not saying that it's a stupid question, just that there are a ton of variables to be considered.) But I do agree that it sounds like this guy doesn't want to hurt anyone. He could have done that when you came in the door. He has other wants/needs and no other way that he can see to get people to listen to him. Or he's living out some sort of psychotic fantasy..or... We had a woman once pull out a knife thinking that intimidating us was the best way to get us to work harder on her arrested father. Before she finished her threat I rammed into her with the jump bag between she and I...smashed her hard enough to push her through the drywall into the wall insulation, she went out cold and the police took care of her from there. I think that that was the right approach in that case. She probably just wanted to be dramatic and wave her knife...But, I wasn't in the mood, nor had the time to entertain her..And in that situation I had the upper hand as on TV everyone always runs from the crazy woman with the knife..she didn't really have a place in her had for an alternative. But, a knife certainly isn't a gun... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Plain Ruff Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Ok, Dwayne, I see your point and I hear you. What are your thoughts if he shot your partner(not fatally) and said "You're next" (that's a unfair what if on this situation but hey it's my thread). ha ha ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneEMTP Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Man, I just can't say...I don't have any idea... I'd probably just try and be as a greeable as possible, which we all know, probably means I'm going to get shot in the face... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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