paramedicmike Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Mike, the patient isn't refusing to go to the hospital, he's just refusing to go the hospital with a gay medic or a black medic or whatever. He's just refusing to be taken care of by that medic in my example, he's not refusing to be transported, as a matter of fact, the guy who hated me, wanted to go to the hospital in our ems services ambulance but just not by me taking care of him. IN the end it all worked out but not until after we had some time to chat while waiting for the neighboring services ambulance to get to us.Refusing to go, regardless of the reason, is still refusing to go. Reasonable attempts to get the patient to go can and should be made. In the end, however, if the patient still refuses, even for something stupid like not liking the provider and after reasonabe attempts at accommodating the patient's concerns, it's still refusing. Document accordingly. ERDoc is right when he says that when requesting an emergency service you get what you get. S/he called us for help. If the person decides our help is not wanted then that is his/her choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Plain Ruff Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 (edited) Refusing to go, regardless of the reason, is still refusing to go. Reasonable attempts to get the patient to go can and should be made. In the end, however, if the patient still refuses, even for something stupid like not liking the provider and after reasonabe attempts at accommodating the patient's concerns, it's still refusing. Document accordingly. ERDoc is right when he says that when requesting an emergency service you get what you get. S/he called us for help. If the person decides our help is not wanted then that is his/her choice. I see your side Mike but I'm still curious as to what if any would happen in court. Would be an interesting test case. Man refuses to go citing racist opinions, EMS System refuses to accomodate him, I wonder what the outcome would be? Just pontificating. I would not like to have to defend that case. I wonder what the media's take on it would be. Edited February 4, 2013 by Captain ToHellWithItAll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFIB Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 (edited) We observed similar taboo motivated discomfort when a porn star recently enrolled to become an EMT. Discrimination is discrimination. That said there should most definitely be an acceptable standard for every profession. In such an incredibly diverse society, how to determine what is acceptable continues to be the dilemma The ambulance should not be a platform for the promotion of ideology or lifestyle. I have found that where there is a will there is a way. When all parties are willing to make small consecions people can usually reach an agreement. Edited February 4, 2013 by DFIB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paramedicmike Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I see your side Mike but I'm still curious as to what if any would happen in court. Would be an interesting test case. Man refuses to go citing racist opinions, EMS System refuses to accomodate him, I wonder what the outcome would be? Just pontificating. I would not like to have to defend that case. I wonder what the media's take on it would be.Good questions. A lot would depend on what would be included in "EMS refusing to accommodate" the patient. As for the media? Well, who are they to let facts get in the way of tabloid journalism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bieber Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Man Beibs, good points. I didn't consider a fair scale for hireability....and until I'm able to come up with such a thing then change my opinion to "of course they should be hired." Often I've seen, and allowed my opinion to be colored by those that make me think, "God damn it...I'm sorry that you carry this extra burdon, but make some kind of effort!" Thanks for the reality check. No problem, man. I really do see where you're coming from, and I agree that we have to protect our patients and try to make them as comfortable as possible, I just have no idea where the line is drawn or how we could decide on it fairly in such a way that no one else's rights are trampled on in the process. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Plain Ruff Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Good questions. A lot would depend on what would be included in "EMS refusing to accommodate" the patient. As for the media? Well, who are they to let facts get in the way of tabloid journalism? But that's just it Mike, Once the media gets a hold of it then all bets are off, Double edged sword. You may have a system who attempted to accomodate someone as best they could but because they couldn't meet in the middle the media takes it to the end of the road and makes the service out to be full of red necked bigots who all hate fags and gays, and are all ready to lynch the next black guy who calls 911. No matter what the truth is. We've all seen it out there with medics who were in all terms innocent of a accusation but their appearance in the media has made them public enemy number 1. I for one don't try to enable anyone's cave man opinion, we all know how hard I fought against Crotchity and I also have fought blatant racism and anti-gay comments at one former employer to my employment detriment so I don't want to let someone to try to milk the system but what accomodations should be made in such a case? I ask this because eventually one of us will be confronted with caveman cletus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
island emt Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 That attitude can be present in more ways than you think/ When we moved here 20 years ago, we only knew a dozen or so of the "locals" . Islanders are multi generational families with some going back a hundred years or more on the islands. My wife & I had both been in EMS for over 20 years at that point. We joined the service here and would respond to calls where the Pt would say" I don;t know you & your not from here::: We want somebody from here to take care of us. Being new to the Islands we tried to fit in with the "natives" , but had to draw the line somehwere. Our response to them was my name is Ed and if you want to wait for an islander , then it will be a very long wait as there were none on the service at that point. We were all from away. Once they got used to the idea that we were their best hope of getting the treatment and care they needed all was good. It took a while to overcome the "islander" bias, but eventually we have won them over to the point of them calling us at home to find out if they should call 911 for the ambulance or if they can wait to talk to their Dr. Many of them have been my wife's patients at the hospital in town and the rest have accepted us as locals, but not Islanders. How is the above scenario any different than refusing a black, chinese mexican , cuban , russian, lesbian, gay, transvestite, or even a female provider to care for you ??? All of society has biases and bigotry of some form. How about a tattooed provider or one with lots of piercings? My personal feelings are if you call 911 for an emergency and decide that your bigotry is so great that you refuse care from a qualified provider ::: then it sucks to be you. It is not our responsibility to send for another crew. What happens if the second crew is not wanted?? Do you call in a third? Or forth until you get a crew the alleged pt likes??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFIB Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) That attitude can be present in more ways than you think/ How is the above scenario any different than refusing a black, chinese mexican , cuban , russian, lesbian, gay, transvestite, or even a female provider to care for you ??? All of society has biases and bigotry of some form. How about a tattooed provider or one with lots of piercings? I have seen with my own eyes people ask for a different doctor because of the difference in their race. It was a horribly embarrassing situation even though it really had nothing to do with me. Although everybody wants to be accepted as they are, including their decisions, and I am against discrimination, I think there are differences between behavioral decisions and biological things we have no control over. In some instances I feel like some people would like for society to accommodate for counter-cultural decisions they have made. In most instances folks are willing to accommodate without being asked, mainly because most people are nice, nicer than those that are forcing themselves on the situation. It has always been uncomfortable for me to see people try to force others to play like their personal decisions have no effect on how others interact with them and try to force issues. Edited February 5, 2013 by DFIB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeymedic1984 Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 Good points by all, but seriously, do you really believe your HR department is going to hire a dude with 5 oclock shadow and 36 DDs ? I do not see the dude ever getting the chance; if you disagree, please tell me how many trannies you currently employ at your service ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arctickat Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Good points by all, but seriously, do you really believe your HR department is going to hire a dude with 5 oclock shadow and 36 DDs ? I do not see the dude ever getting the chance; if you disagree, please tell me how many trannies you currently employ at your service ? I had one who worked for me in the past. She moved on to university and is a very successful mechanical engineer now whose work has been used in police, military, and television applications. I'd post her picture but I don't have access to that storage drive because I'm at a conference today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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