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Gun control, the constitution and you, let's keep it civil.


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Island, I do not know where you obtained your numbers but they are inaccurate. The 7.62 x 63 mm is commonly called the thirty-aught six, a hunting round. The classic AK variants typically fire the 7.62 x 39 mm round. I assure you it fires a supersonic bullet. The speed of sound is around 300-400 meters/second. A typical 7.62x39 will be around 600-800 m/s.

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Island, I think this sums it up pretty well. Just like the Dems will never be in favor of true tort reform as the trial lawyers make huge contributions to their campaigns.

Maybe if those damned ignorant conservatives stopped fighting with the damned whiny liberals we could all sing Kumbya

Can you imagine a scenario where a bunch of billy bob rednecks got all budweisered up, and grabbed their AK -47' & bushmaster assault rifles from the gun racks in their pickups, jumped on their 4

Here, use your imagination about what this does to an arm, leg, head, lung, hollow, or solid organ:

I know any gun shot wound on a child is catastrophic. But again, if 18 of those children weren't transported, it means the wounds were beyond catastrophic.

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However, with all we have talked about, does the bullet actually matter when we know much more devastating rounds can be used by hunters all day long? For example, I can take a bolt action, single shot rifle that fires the 5.56 mm "assault rifle bullet" and I dare say most people would not consider that gun an assault rifle. Therefore, I believe there are much better methods of defining what constitutes an "assault rifle."

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I think we've deviated from the original discussion a little, although this is all very interesting.

I'm not from the US, but I'd like to echo the point made earlier ( by chbare, I think), that this shouldn't become a "criticise the US", bitch session.

I think that there are a few reasonable steps that could be taken after this. I don't think that a ban on "assault weapons" will, by itself, prevent a similar tragedy occurring again - butt sure seems like a good idea. As discussed, the term "assault weapon" is very vague. Perhaps a better approach is to simply ban automatic weapons, defined as anything that fires more than one round each time the trigger is depressed. It seems like there's little sporting or recreational use of these weapons. The future King of England seems unlikely to invade if automatic weapons are removed.

The other, is that it seems ridiculous that someone should be able to avoid a background check by purchasing at a gun show. Couldn't this loophole be closed too?

From the outside, looking in, I wonder if this is a primary healthcare problem? Could something as unpopular as universal healthcare enable more potential killers better access to mental health professionals?

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The designation "assault rifle" has been used many times in this thread. Besides being a rifle used in the commision of an assault, what do you think is meant by this designation?

However, the 5.56mm round used in the AR 15 style rifles is most certainly not a large or heavy caliber round. In fact, it is quite small and virtually all the bullets used to hunt deer, elk and so on are of a larger caliber. In addition, where do we draw the line when it comes to a "large amount." I am not being argumentative or talking semantics, but having a good definition of what we are discussing is probably a good idea.

lets stop splitting hairs....common understanding of an ássult weapon'is a weapon that is designed to be used in military type of roles. haxs a semi auto for god forbid a full automatic load system, that can have a magazine capacity of greater than 10 rounds......AR15, AK47, MP5, Aus Styer for example...and for the real nutters and .50 cal machine gun you can purchase.....

the AR 15 was designed as a light combat semi auto/ auto rifle troops to carry....dont matter if it is .223 or 5.56....in a domestic area, a large number of bullets can do an awful lot of damage...all you have to do is keep pulling the trigger

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This topic is too important not to have a good understanding of terminology and definitions. Hair will have to be split and concrete decisions will have to occur. However, we all benefit from having a basic understanding of what we are talking about. As you pointed out in your definition, the cartridge type does not seem nearly as important as the gun and how the gun works. That is a critically important differentiation and clearly not splitting hairs IMHO.

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lets stop splitting hairs....common understanding of an ássult weapon'is a weapon that is designed to be used in military type of roles. haxs a semi auto for god forbid a full automatic load system, that can have a magazine capacity of greater than 10 rounds......AR15, AK47, MP5, Aus Styer for example...and for the real nutters and .50 cal machine gun you can purchase.....

the AR 15 was designed as a light combat semi auto/ auto rifle troops to carry....dont matter if it is .223 or 5.56....in a domestic area, a large number of bullets can do an awful lot of damage...all you have to do is keep pulling the trigger

So no fully automatics. Basically those are already outlawed in the USA, takes a lot of money and time to qualify for one. So the guns used were semi auto so the ban would not affect them, so no change.

10 rounds? That means even most of the old 22s that were a kids first gun would be illegal as they hold more than 10. So almost every pistol would be banned as they hold mags that hold more than 10. My concealed carry has 10 shells but also has a factory mag that holds 17. How are we going to make sure the bad guys only have 10 shots as well?

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Your right Chris : late posting ,was writing from old memory banks. The AK platform uses the 762x 39 which is a .308 caliber often used for deer hunting the 762x63 is the cartridge used in the M-60 machine gun. Both are weapons systems designed to kill human beings.

The point being : An assault weapon is a gun designed for military use to kill human beings with large capacity magazines .

The NRA solution is to put weapons in the hands of school administration staff and armed guards in every school. Whats next? the old retired cop posing as a janitor patrolling the doors?

That goes down a whole different line of thought about becoming a police type state or the wild wild west.

Yes there are resource officers in some schools in largely urban settings now.

The question that nobody is addressing at the national level is how to keep someone with a mental defect or illness from getting their hands on a weapon of any kind.

How about banning all the electronic role player killing games that give kids the thinking process of it's ok to kill people, & then hit the reset button?

What is the breaking point for American sensibilities in innocent deaths?

Time to open the discussion on these topics.

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Island, the 7.62x39 is not a particularly common hunting round. Also, the 7.62x63 is not used in the M60. The M60 fires the 7.62x51. The 7.62x63 is the common .30-06 hunting tound. While it may seem like hair splitting, we need to talk about things accurately and have a basic understanding of the information we post so we do not add to all of the inaccurate information being thrown around.

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So no fully automatics. Basically those are already outlawed in the USA, takes a lot of money and time to qualify for one. So the guns used were semi auto so the ban would not affect them, so no change.

10 rounds? That means even most of the old 22s that were a kids first gun would be illegal as they hold more than 10. So almost every pistol would be banned as they hold mags that hold more than 10. My concealed carry has 10 shells but also has a factory mag that holds 17. How are we going to make sure the bad guys only have 10 shots as well?

Living in a country where high capacity magazines are illegal, what typically happens is that a block of wood or something similar is placed in the magazine before sale. It's easy to later remove, but fulfills the letter of the law. In a similar manner, you may still be able to purchase an automatic that's been modified to single shot, but a kit to convert it back may be sitting next to it for sale "for collectors" or "for novelty value". Take out the piece of wood, put a bunch of rounds in, and put it in the firearm and you're now in possession of an illegal weapon that will get you jail time. Convert the weapon back to full auto, same thing.

Obviously it depends on how you write the law, but it's not always a case of banning a specific weapon as much as prohibiting specific capabilities.

edit: typing on phone, spelling

Edited by systemet
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