First code (about flipping time) and my first intubation a few days after

[runswithneedles]

Did you feel that same indifference towards this patient's kids? Did you think that it might be good to get them out of the room while you so indifferently pounded on this guy's chest?

answer to question number one. No. I felt horrible for the children. During that call I followed orders and thats all I did. No freelancing. Second. I was ordered to do chest compression which is what I did from the time patient contact was made to the trasnfer of care at the ED. of course taking out time for my preceptor to attempt a intubation and me placing the combi tube. The family and children were asked to be outside (or so I think) which they so happened to be in the yard which they wheeled him out to

You're not there to judge. And perhaps you didn't.

I in no way shape or form condmened him for his actions. However I was pissed at the selfishness involved with the addiction that took his life. Those kids ill live with them memory of seeing their dad die and me doing CPR for the rest of their life. It could even change who they will be later and who they are now.

But what you wrote here makes it sound like you did.

I did alot of stupid things and had some very dull witted moments prior to falling asleep in my bed after a hectic 42 hour run and run shift. This poorly written post was one of them this

This all ties in to what Ruff is saying when he says to be careful what you post. I'll add to that by saying not only becareful of what you post but be careful of *how* you post.

Because that lawyer that's reading your post will infer from what and how you've posted that you are an insensitive, uncaring, judgemental person who didn't work hard enough to save the life of the deceased. You will then have to prove you're not. That'll be hard to do based on much of how you've posted content here.

Fair enough. Youve been telling me this since ive signed on. Im consistently trying to be better at popping off my relief valve. How do you guys vent without making an insensitive dick out of yourself.

As a paramedic student I, too, would hope you'd know better than to shove anything into a patient's airway.

As stated in the post above. I felt mild resistance of it sticking the sides of his oropharynx but I never felt true resistance to the point of shoving it in

You're young. You're new to the business. There are some lessons that can be learned over a longer period of time than others. This is not one of those lessons. This is something you need to learn it now

You have been telling me this since I stepped on. And by my posts im sure you have seen a relatively decreased number since our first talk back in February . Sometimes my poor judgement or lack of gets the best of me.

Learn it. Then demonstrate you've learned it. Consistently.

Working on it.

Edited April 3, 2012 by runswithneedles

[DFIB]

Fair enough. Youve been telling me this since ive signed on. Im consistently trying to be better at popping off my relief valve. How do you guys vent without making an insensitive dick out of yourself.

I begin with a solid and objective operational debriefing. What did I do well? What could i have done better? Was I a true advocate for my patient? and so on and so forth. Sometimes I seek to talk to other EMS professionals in private that will understand and talk through any issues I might have had during and after the call.

Everyone should have a partner confidant that we can talk to and know they will honor my trust in them with their silence.

Professionalism extends far beyond the ambulance. Professionalism encompasses the terminology and attitudes that I express publicly at all times. In private I can be more open with my feelings.

[systemet]

Is that normal?

Yes, you can enjoy running a cardiac arrest or a critical call without being a psychopath.

And along with that I felt no pity or compassion for this man because of the way he chose to leave this earth leaving behind two kids that watched us wheel him into the ambulance and drive away. Possibly witnessed him shoot up his last dose that did him in. Is that wrong of me?

I think what's wrong, is if you feel you have to act like you don't care because it's an attitude that's been modelled for you by preceptors, instructors, class-mates or your peers. If you honestly don't care, then that's ok.

There's a certain amount of emotional distance you need to cultivate to survive seeing some of the things we see in EMS. I know I can't remember even a fraction of the cardiac arrest I've worked. Although, related to this call, I can say I remember working a man in his mid-forties in front of his wife and two kids, and while it didn't bother me almost 10 years ago when I had no children of my own, it's something I think about occasionally now. I remember another I worked around Christmas time on my final practicum, where we had to move children's toys out from under the body, perhaps even younger. This call didn't bother me particularly at the time either. But I think, once you have children of your own, or you have them in your life, your feelings about this call might change. Not everything we think we've put behind us stays there. [These are far from my worst experience in EMS, but they seem relevant here.]

I don't think it's wrong, either, to feel angry at this person, because they did something stupid and selfish, and traumatised their children for life. Or because they caused you to have what you may later decide was actually a very unpleasant experience. In general though, I think it's better not to go around judging people, because as you collect life experiences you may have a better insight into what they're going through, or what they've gone through.

I would suggest, also, that you need to be careful about how hardened and how cold you let yourself become as a defense mechanism. It's easy to let your humanity slip away in small pieces and not realise it. Then you come home, take the streets with you, and end up treating your family and the people around you who love you with the same indifference. This does not do good things to relationships. Maybe save a little compassion for the kids.

Take care.

Edited April 3, 2012 by systemet

[island emt]

This post is for everyone here, not just Runswithneedles -

Runswithneedles, you need to be really careful what you are posting on this forum. this forum is the number one EMS forum in the nation, I think it is at least. Lawyers are looking at this forum.

Meth patient, improperly placed ET tube, 2 children watching their father being placed in the ambulance a good lawyer might be able to put two and two together. Far fetched, maybe, Yes more than likely but let's be careful what we post. Your entire post about pounding on that guys chest really showed a lack of indiference to this person. I'll stop there and say it in a pm.

Then you post that you shoved a airway down him, I hope you didn't shove it down there, did you cause post mortem trauma? Like posted above, His lawyer is looking and if that laywer is lookin online at these forums, he might just look and put two and two and two more together and subpoena our forum admin again and get your info and pull you in to court and where would you be. Of course you will already be in court due to you being on the run.

I think we need to re-visit the What we put on the internet is there forever. It never goes away, it will stand the test of time and after we die it will probably still be there.

Be cognizant of what we post and be considerate of what you post.

You don't even need a subpoena to find Mike. After his first round of stepping on his crank here, I spent less than 5 minutes on google and found out who he is , where he lives, where he went to high school, his phone # and who he was trying to get hired with. Not real hard to make the connections. There are a bunch of people with the same name in Texas , but only one his age.

I tried being subtle in my comments above,Ruff but you state it all pretty clearly.

My guess is that Mike has a lot of maturing to do if he 's going to survive in the business.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Systemet, who are you referring to? Me or Runswithneedles?

My name is Mike, You need to be really clear as Captain Kickass's real name is Mike(that's me), ParamedicMike is Mike and is Runswithneedles also named Mike?????

[runswithneedles]

that would be me. Since hes referring to me maturing.

[Just Plain Ruff]

is your name mike too? There were a lot of mike's being thrown around.

About 8years ago, my son was 1 year old. I was in church, I was holding him and we were singing a song. The song hit me particularly the wrong way and I looked down at his sleeping face and all of a sudden the face of a 4 month old that I worked a number of years ago flashed into my mind.

I thought I had locked that little boy in my vault and kept the key in another part of my mind. All of a sudden the emotions came flooding out. Not knowing why they came out I handed over my son to my wife and left the sanctuary and walked out. I went to the place I knew was a good place to sit and just sat for the rest of the service.

I sat in silence and just recounted what I went through on one of the worst calls I ever ran. A call I thought I had forgotten but apparantly it had not forgotten me. I'm not going to get into it here but it was a day that an entire family was forever changed as well as my entire ambulance service as well as a fire department and law enforcement service were forever changed. That's it.

These calls never leave you. But you put one foot in front of the other, to put it like Kris Kringle talking to the frozen mean guy in Santa Klaus is coming to town, soon you'll be walking out the door. You get up, wipe yourself off, debrief, and then go back to work the next day. Tackle the next day and then the next and then you do it all over again.

That's all there is to it. Once you stop feeling something, is the day that your career should stop and you should start looking for a new career at mcDonalds or Target.

[runswithneedles]

The feelings did hit me. But Im feeling for the children and his family. Prior to having the monitor placed on him I thought to myself "good quality chest compressions and early advanced life support will bring this man back". I was hoping to see a v-fib or a v-tac that after a one or two rounds of the defibrillator would put his heart back in order. He would go the ER, get admitted for a few days, and hopefully I would see him be taken by the company I work for to attend rehab where after the completion the program get his life back in order. I truly hoped my first code would be one which the patient would live. Especially for only being in his mid 30's. I became angry for letting myself believe that. Even with him being in asystole from the time of arrival on scene to transfer of care.

Edited April 3, 2012 by runswithneedles

[Just Plain Ruff]

There is compassion in this one Obi wan,

[runswithneedles]

Then you come home, take the streets with you, and end up treating your family and the people around you who love you with the same indifference.

That actually happened to me after this post. I shouldve mentioned that this run took place nearly a week ago and im only posting it now because its been hectic between relationship, family issues, schoolwork, and work. What kinds of ways are there to prevent this from happening.