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ma2359

Muslims Allowed to Attack People for Insulting Mohammad

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If I am scanning channels on my TV and I glimpse something I do not find appealing I keep on flipping.

If I am standing on a street and I see something I do not find appealing/offensive I turn away and walk in different direction--we do not attack.

Reference your son--Would he find it offensive or would he find humor? What you are saying is YOU would be offended and would act on his behalf even though he would not suffer from a depiction, correct? The emotions felt would be yours, not your son's and the beating which ensued upon the antagonist would be due to your internal issues and not your son's condition...correct?

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FYI, for whoever is interested, Bernie's last name is spelled Goetz. Remember that, until the end of his days, the person he injured most by the shooting will get 1/4 what ever income is earned by "The Subway Vigilante." The MoFo tried robbing an (admittedly illegally) armed man, gets shot, and ends up robbing him again, with the assistance of the New York State Courts. Bernie went to jail for the illegal gun possession charges, and, being an electrical engineer, actually repaired Correction Officers 2 way radios while incarcerated.

I don't recall which came first, the Charles Bronson "Death Wish" movies, or the "Subway Vigilante".

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One more thing: There is a small community near me, inside NYC, that has a Memorial Day Parade, used as a fundraiser for, on alternating years, the community based athletic club, and the Volunteer Fire and Ambulance department. On a year when the athletic club was getting the benefits, 3 New York City uniformed service members, 2 with the FDNY, the 3rd an NYPD cop, drove a float in the parade that mimicked the fatal dragging death of a black man in Texas, only the year before. The community got labeled as racist, the 3 city workers were fired for actions bringing disrepute on their respective departments, and, even though they had nothing to do with the actions of the idiot 3, then Mayor Rudy Giuliani ordered the FDNY to disconnect the VFD's dispatch teleprinter from the city's system.

1) The former city employees unsuccessfully sued the city to get their jobs back.

2) They had changed their "float" from the concept they had "officially" submitted to the parade committee.

3) The 3 didn't even live within the community.

4) Community leaders met the protest march, led by the Reverend Al Sharpton, with a food table for the marchers.

5) After a month, the Mayor relented, and the teleprinter was reconnected.

6) The parade committee now keeps a close watch on any marchers and floats in the parade, even to the moment the parade begins.

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...

If I am standing on a street and I see something I do not find appealing/offensive I turn away and walk in different direction--we do not attack...

I would argue that that's, in rare circumstances, part of the problem.

...Reference your son--Would he find it offensive or would he find humor?...

So we should draw lines according to what offends socially inept autistic children?

...What you are saying is YOU would be offended and would act on his behalf even though he would not suffer from a depiction, correct?..

But it's not just about offense, but spreading ignorance, as is the anti Muslim nonsense. He's (the man with the goat) spreading an image that many of the ignorant are going to believe is accurate, as well as promoting the idea that mocking and attacking people that are unable to defend themselves is acceptable. And in my world it's not.

...The emotions felt would be yours, not your son's and the beating which ensued upon the antagonist would be due to your internal issues and not your son's condition...correct?

Correct. So when the float comes down your street depicting a gang of skinheads violently raping/sodomizing little red headed girls, you'll simply choose to believe that they have a right to their message, and walk away?

You'll accept that they have a right to pass that message to all of the little boys on the street, and worse, the little girls? You'll add your acceptance, with your silence, to the message that the kids will get? Simply turn your head and walk away...turn the channel?

No worries Brother...I'll smash the shit out of them on behalf of your girls and and all other girls as well...

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Being that this was an atheist parade and those who parade tend to go to the extreme for effect (reference earlier discussions on gay pride parades) what did you expect to see by watching this sort of event?

And the man portrayed himself as a Zombie Mohammed...kind of funny in my book...just like Zombie Jesus.

My point about your son was the fact that he himself would not be offended, youa re taking offense for him by attacking. Even if it is about perpetuating ignorance...what have you perpetuated by attacking? Did it educate, did it fix the situtation or did it make you feel better in that moment and make you a hero to those in your immediate beating circle?

Yes I would walk away. No one would take them serious and quite honestly a depiction of rape is a far cry from being zombie Mo or drooling and performing stereotypical autisitc motions.

I do not want, need or ask you to smash the shit out of anyone oon my behalf if they were to depict such a thing. In fact I expect/request that you simply walk away...if everyone did that...would they still have a voice?

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My final on that parade incident: The 3 city workers were white, in a white neighborhood, with the one imitating the dragged man having shoe polish on his face to "play" being a black man. The float, retitled from whatever their original submission had been, bore a legend saying "Black To The Future", and they were throwing watermelon slices at the crowd. Someone had a video of the incident on Youtube less than an hour later.

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...Yes I would walk away. No one would take them serious and quite honestly a depiction of rape is a far cry from being zombie Mo or drooling and performing stereotypical autisitc motions...

How so? Both represent behaviors that I fine abhorant, yet both represent ideas that you think should be freely expressed without censure or sanction, right?

...I do not want, need or ask you to smash the shit out of anyone oon my behalf if they were to depict such a thing. In fact I expect/request that you simply walk away...if everyone did that...would they still have a voice?

You don't need to ask. It's what I would do, and have done, without your request or even permission. History is full of atrocities that occurred because people turned their heads instead of speaking or acting. And if everyone did that we'd all be speaking German now, right?

Referencing Richard's post, most dissenters did walked away. How seriously did people take violence against blacks with silent dissension as a tool? How much change was created by those that walked away as opposed to those that stood up to speak? To say, "Enough is enough."?

I think that those that share your belief will always do fine as long as there are those willing to sacrifice in action to give you the freedom to do nothing.

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Because while to you, both behaviors are equally offenseive, one of the mockeries is inciting actual violence (rape) as opposed to making fun of a certain group without harming them physically. You are not comparing apples to apples which is the beauty of these hypothetical discussions. Yes these ideas can be expressed as that is a right we have in this country, if you do not like it walk away. Violence does not help the situation or prevent future episodes.

You lost it on "the ask" concept...of course I did not ask you to...full of machismo and bravado you gladly volunteered to do it on my behalf and I expressly said NO thank you. I do not need a knuckledragger in this battle, this is not a battle that is won with violence.

And then you close out your argument by invoking Godwin's Law...internet debate travesty.

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...Because while to you, both behaviors are equally offenseive, one of the mockeries is inciting actual violence (rape) as opposed to making fun of a certain group without harming them physically...

It's not inciting anything according to your arguments. It's simply expressing an action that they feel is acceptable, no different than you finding mocking the religious or the handicapped an acceptable expression. Our opinions differ on that.

...You are not comparing apples to apples which is the beauty of these hypothetical discussions...

Says you. In this post we begin to see the deflection that you sometimes try and disguise as logical debate. Though I'm not so easily insulted or intimidated as many that play with you here. There is no difference in the examples, in the context of your argument, other than perspective.

In both cases someone is symbolically violating something dear to someone else. In each case everyone knows that there is no actual sodomy occurring, yet the message is the same.

...Yes these ideas can be expressed as that is a right we have in this country, if you do not like it walk away. Violence does not help the situation or prevent future episodes...

Nonsense. There are times, no matter how long you argue it, that violence is the only realistic tool at our disposal to stop some actions. I can guarantee you that they won't lightly choose to bring such shit to my street again.

Your street doesn't look that those of Compton not because of your actions, as can be said of those that live there, but because you can afford to buy your way into a neighborhood that has higher levels of government sanctioned enforcement willing to do violence on your behalf, allowing you to pretend to pacifism.

If you truly believe in your philosophy of non violence, then prove it by stepping from behind that protection and take your family and intellectual arsenal to someplace where you have no such protections and let it flourish as an example. That seems fair, right?

...You lost it on "the ask" concept...of course I did not ask you to...full of machismo and bravado you gladly volunteered to do it on my behalf...

I offered nothing on your behalf. I offered on behalf of yours, an all other daughters. When you allow such things in front of your home to go unchecked then I'm certainly no longer acting on your behalf, but against it and on behalf of those that you would stand by and allow to be mentally, emotionally, an by example possibly physically injured.

...and I expressly said NO thank you. I do not need a knuckledragger in this battle, this is not a battle that is won with violence...

The knuckledraggers are dying overseas every day to keep the evil out of your backyard. There are amazing examples of bravery while people take back control of their streets and neighborhoods from gangs and thieves, there is a reason that police officers carry guns. Because we don't, at this point in our societal evolution have the necessary tools to resolve all issues passively.

Many battles will have to be settled with aggression, until the war can be won with education and psychological evolution.

There is no significant difference here other than you would have them all lay down their weapons so that all the world could have their free opinions, free from the thought of sanction. Then, your logic follows, as only the kind intelligent opinions would "be taken seriously" the world would become a kind and loving place. You mention being a student of history. How has that worked out in the past?

...And then you close out your argument by invoking Godwin's Law...internet debate travesty...

Again, your deflection from the true issues. I did no such thing. Quote it here and you will see that my argument has no resemblance to the spirit of Godwin's Law.

Good debate...

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