HERBIE1 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 And your last sentence is profound. If you are a person of faith then proof isn't necessary. Don''t you find it ironic that in our profession- one of science, facts, and logic- folks would actually have blind faith? Yes, we see things that defy logic, but I'm sure that if you dug deep enough, we could probably explain away even the occasional "miracle" we may see. Whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Plain Ruff Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Don''t you find it ironic that in our profession- one of science, facts, and logic- folks would actually have blind faith? Yes, we see things that defy logic, but I'm sure that if you dug deep enough, we could probably explain away even the occasional "miracle" we may see. Whatever. Nope not at all Herbie Blind faith is dangerous in my opinion. I know a acquaintance who has absolute blind faith. He/she is basically a walking train wreck when it comes to their family. He/she says it's all God's will. I don't believe it but this person does. This person follows God and lives breathes and eats God. I feel that they may be addicted to God and that is not a healthy thing. So I have seen things, as have you that would make you question a creator, make you question a God (any God) and makes you question humanity. Why would this happen? Is it God's will or just happening? I don't know. If I blindly followed faith then I would say it was God's will. But I don't blindly follow faith, I do question things, I have become known as the argument starting sunday school class member. I believe the bible but I question if what I am reading hasn't been altered or changed from it's original format which several of this sites pre-eminent members have shown that it has in order to fit the mores/morals/beliefs at the time of the translation. I do know it has from Version to version but the underlying words and meaning I feel has been kept. I cannot speak a lick of greek or Hebrew so I cannot say that what was written in hebrew was altered by the original reader and translator. I remain a passive skeptic and per a push off the cliff by a good friend/member here, I have begun to really question what I have learned and what I know. I'm a work in progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chbare Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Faith comes into play when we attempt to explain the philosophical and non-physical aspects of the universe such as what was before "everything" and what made "everything" occur and so on. These are concepts that are not explained by science. A scientific theory has to be falsifiable, in that I mean it should make predictions that can be tested and potentially falsified. Faith, by it's very nature, is not falsifiable and does not make physical predictions that can be tested. Therefore, faith is great for making qualitative sense of the "unknown." Of course, faith is not needed for many people. Also, I have never seen anything that defies logic. I have seen people survive that were most certainly not viable. However, this does not defy logic as this world is still non-deterministic and probabilistic. Therefore, highly improbable things can occur, it's just not all that probable to have them occur. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Plain Ruff Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Good explanation of the science part. I do not hold faith to be the definer in scientific study nor quantifiable things. I think that faith is used to help someone who is hurting by maybe giving them a reason why something happened and to keep away from the really painful reason why it happened. Most people of faith or of no faith will sometimes struggle with something to say in the light of a tragedy. Many times both will lean on a religious theme as to why it happened rather than trying to come to grips with the actual cause of the tragedy such as the actions of the person who died or who the tragedy affected. I'm just thinking out loud here. I have also never seen anything that defied logic, the dead walked out of the hospital post code -- they were dead but now alive. Was it God who did it? Not sure or was it my understanding of the medications and CPR and good airway control that made the difference. Maybe it was God but then again, maybe it was me? Man's car crushed between two cement trucks and the man walked out without a scratch, God or physics? Maybe both or maybe one or the other? The big issue for me in rectifying my faith and what I've actually seen is that I have to take my faith into account but not let it go overboard and cloud my judgement and color what should normally be a success on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorenus Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) Although a (fairly) atheistic person, I find the ancient mythology kinda interesting. The thought, that there is an underworld - which is parted into three. The part, where to "good" people get rewarded, the part, where the "bad" people are punished - and the Fields of Asphodel, where the mostmajority is just standing around, the ones that never really made an impact, may it be in the wrong or right direction, the ones who just lived, who just "exist" there, in eternal mediocrity. I like the moral that comes from this explanation of the afterlife. Edited December 5, 2011 by Vorenus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneEMTP Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 ..OK, please do not hammer me on this next thing. I"m actually in a crossroads of my faith as well, not a crisis of faith but merely a qeustioning... I as well see nothing to hammer on. I have two uncles that are preachers. I went to one when I was younger and said, "Uncle, Christians want me to believe that the bible is perfect. That despite having questions that I am simply supposed to believe harder. That I'm supposed to use the bible's intelligence in place of my own, and I just can't do that." He said, "That's one of the many 'untruths' of religion in my opinion, that blind faith is perfect faith. Blind faith isn't perfect, is simply blind. God is flattered by your questions. He's inspired by your search." Not sure why that stuck in my head verbatim, but I still find it to be inspiring. One of the most open minded yet religiously educated people I know, and I, were having the "God, no God" debate one night in the ambulance bay while waiting for a call. I asked him, "What if I could prove to you, which of course I can't, but what if I could prove that everything that happens that you attribute to your God, I could explain completely with behavioral science?" He thought for a few minutes and then said, 'Then I would be forced to stop believing in God. I'm not looking for a happy fantasy." To me, that quote is equally as inspiring as the first. I have no respect for 'perfect faith' followers of any religion. One of the things I loved about the Buddhists in Mongolia is that they question everything, discuss everything religious, but argue nothing, or so that's how it appeared to me. I don't think your questions show that you're lost, or that you've been fooled Ruff. I believe that perhaps they are the beginning of a truer faith, or lack thereof. Both of which, if you come to a place where you truly feel validated, are good things right? The same as I am confused by Christians that can't see the point of view of the skeptics, I'm confused by the skeptics that seem to find a huge joy in trying to crush the faith of others. It seems to me that in the middle ground lies peace... Carl Sagan was equally confused by believers and non believers alike. He certainly wasn't a Christian, but, as a lack of evidence isn't evidence against felt that those with confidence that there is no God were just as ignorant of scientific concepts. Questions are always good, unless the truth might crush your spirit. Then perhaps, ignorance is bliss. Dwayne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Plain Ruff Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Questions are always good, unless the truth might crush your spirit. Then perhaps, ignorance is bliss. Dwayne If it leads me to a truer understanding or a deeper understanding of my own faith then I can't see this type of questioning and learning would lead me to a crushed spirit. I'm still that ole work in progress, from faith to fatherhood to being a better man to a more well rounded person all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERBIE1 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I'm going out on a limb here- and will probably get that branch sawed off beneath me, but... I think there is an inversely proportional relationship between education and degree of faith. Yes, it's a generalization, but it seems very often to be the case in my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Plain Ruff Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I'm going out on a limb here- and will probably get that branch sawed off beneath me, but... I think there is an inversely proportional relationship between education and degree of faith. Yes, it's a generalization, but it seems very often to be the case in my experience. So are you saying that the less educated the more profession of faith or vice versa? I think you are partly true if you are positing that it's the former rather than the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eydawn Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 Define: Degree of faith. Let's start there. I'm very well educated. Many here would say I'm intelligent. I developed my faith during my education, and it has gotten me through some really tough things that I might not have otherwise been able to cope with. I question my beliefs, I allow myself to be challenged and challenge others... but I am passionately, devotedly faithful to God and my Christian beliefs... I simply don't choose to look at the world through cotton wool... or explain everything that I do not understand by "God did it." I am less verbal in some forums about my beliefs, and respect the right of the individual above all when it comes to health care... you don't want my religion in the mix, that's a HUGE patient right.... Wendy CO EMT-B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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