Why I'm pro gay marriage

[Happiness]

So as the conversation goes on we should take a look and the Borneo Chimanzee's. They have discovered that this species is pretty close to our own dna. They use sex as a conflict resolution tactic, they may something...........................................

[Paramagic]

Excellent post. I think you made great points without ever relying on political correctness to shore them up...not an easy thing to do in this day and age.

Question though, on the above quote. As disease, starvation, and cruelty are also found throughout the human as well as the non human world, do we then allow them, or in fact embrace them because they are not aberrant? Each of those things might be said to be physically beneficial to human evolution, but how so with homosexuality if there is no procreation to be effected?

Dwayne

I don't think it's a matter of celebrating or embracing, merely acknowledging the fact of it's existence. We can accept that X exists (be it homosexuality, disease, death, so on) without applying a value judgement to it or attributing agency to it's being. If we remove ourselves, with all our cultural baggage from the equation and try to see a situation without the lens of out own value system it becomes easier to accept that what I see as the norm is not what others see as the norm, and broadly speaking there is no reason why my value should be any more important, relevant or "true" than anyone elses. Of course this (for me at least) applies to situations or events that are between consenting adults and do not cause harm to others or to society at large. Although that being said, we accept and indeed celebrate some things that do cause harm to society, such as consumption of alcohol (to excess), merely because it is an accepted cultural norm in Western society.

I may be wrong, but I seem to recall reading somewhere some hypothesis on the role of homosexual behaviour in terms of evolutionary theory. I'll have to go and see if I can find that or whether I am just making that up. It's entriely possible I made it up.

[DwayneEMTP]

...because he was no longer top chimp.

Man, if I just had a nickle for every time I've lost my spot as top chimp....

...They use sex as a conflict resolution tactic, they may [be onto] something...........................................

I'm sure that they are. In fact right now I'd be willing to trade sex to most of the chicks in the forum in exchange for, say....well....whatever....

Paramagic, not ignoring you Brother. Thanks for your response. I got busy tonight and don't have the time to give you the considered response that I would like. Though your logic upon first blush seems really tight I'd still like to do what I can to kick it in the balls.

Dwayne

[JPINFV]

In regards to cruelty in animals, how can we even begin to know? The last time I checked, we haven't cracked the code of barks or meows, or grunts, or other non-human animal vocalizations yet. Since cruelty requires intent, how can we say that the cat playing with a dying mousing is or is not doing so to be cruel?

Sometimes I'm amazed at the hubris of Homo sapiens.

[chbare]

Don't forget, we've made it to the top and have earned the right to spew said hubris.

[DwayneEMTP]

In regards to cruelty in animals, how can we even begin to know? The last time I checked, we haven't cracked the code of barks or meows, or grunts, or other non-human animal vocalizations yet...

So you've not observed behavior in non humans that you believed to be joy, or fear, confidence, insecurity? If the only communication that you can imagine is vocal/verbal then I guess I can see your confusion, otherwise it appears that you're just looking to jump on points that have already been made.

Sometimes I'm amazed at the hubris of Homo sapiens.

Where have you seen that here?

Dwayne

[romneyfor2012]

OK, might earn my first negative grades on this one, but here is what I think/know: I recently saw a documentary on human evolution, that talked about the differences in human versus ape sexual anatomy. Female's vagina and pelvic bones actually changed during evolution as we became animals that walked upright (moving more to the front and canal directional change to accomodate not being on all fours), human male penises are far larger than their ape counter parts (not for me, but for some of you lol) so that they could procreate with the new position of female's plumbing. It is believed that these changes (by whoever does such things -- God, Buddah, the Pope) was strictly for procreation purposes and that enjoyment of the act was not part of the plan. It is believed that we are the only species that uses sex for anything other than procreation, all other species do not do it for enjoyment (female in heat, male notices, makes a deposit to make another animal).

So you will have to decide if homosexual sex is aberrant activity, since it is known that the activity will not result in procreation. For me, there have been homosexuals as far back in our history as we know (at least in biblical times, since we know the bible is against it), so I can not see how an issue that has been around over 2000 years is an aberrant activity. I do not understand how 2 people of the same sex can enjoy doing what they do (I have had anal sex with women and found it disgusting), but that is not for me to decide. As long as you are not performing any sexual activity with me or my wife, it is none of my business what you do.

With that being said, I have to ask why lesbians use vibrators ? Gay men do not strap fake boobs on their man, so why do women who proport to be in love with women find the need to use male parts for pleasure ? Just asking ? If too risque a question, I apologize in advance.

[Just Plain Ruff]

With that being said, I have to ask why lesbians use vibrators ? Gay men do not strap fake boobs on their man, so why do women who proport to be in love with women find the need to use male parts for pleasure ? Just asking ? If too risque a question, I apologize in advance.

Not going there with a 10 foot pole but the question could be reversed, if lesbians use male parts for pleasure then the corrolary should be true that gay men would use female parts(manufactured) for pleasure as well.

and then does that make them truly gay or just playing the role. I mean if a lesbian is using a male part to get off then does that mean they are only partly gay?

[chbare]

Both heterosexual and homosexual couples use "toys," so this phenomena is not isolated by any means. Also, I believe you need to appreciate the anatomy of a female. It should become quite obvious why certain "toys" are used by both hetero and homo women. Regarding gay men and fake boobs, I would not write that one off.

Sexual expression is complex and I do not believe we can make simple analogies or have linear hypotheses about said concept. I will say anecdotally however, as a relationship progresses and both parties become comfortable with each other, I would expect more shall we say playfulness. Clearly, this involves mutual love, respect and good communication. I'm not saying everybody will be like this, but a certain amount evolution of sexual expression is bound to occur. Some couples may "slow down" while others will want to explore their sexuality in unique and meaningful ways.

Edit: "in"

Edited December 7, 2011 by chbare

[Just Plain Ruff]

Tru dat Ch

I know that as a relationship expands and becomes more intimate it is logical and just plain freaking fun to expand the sexual expression repertoire(sic) in the bedroom. There is a reason why the porn industry and the vibrator/sex enhancement industry makes more money than the NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL combined each year.