Hey Baby, You Look Sexy In That C-Collar

[Just Plain Ruff]

That mentions 'protected information' several times but you don't list the definition of what that protected information is...I think that, though I've not read it in ages, it's referring to specific health, and primarily insurance information...

Using her phone number for non medical purposes? I don't think anyone here will argue that that's horseshit. But as he didn't transmit any of her personal and/or insurance information (making that assumption of course) to anyone else, I don't see the HIPAA issue. Though I'd can his stupid ass in a second as his professional judgement is obviously off in the ditch in my opinion.

Just trying to make the point that many state 'HIPAA violation" because they're unable or unwilling to differentiate between patient privacy issues and HIPAA issues.

Though I don't believe it's a HIPAA violation, am I making it clear that I think this guy is a douche...?

Dwayne

Dwayne, here is what I think is the point

Access and Uses. For internal uses, a covered entity must develop and implement policies and procedures that restrict access and uses of protected health information based on the specific roles of the members of their workforce. These policies and procedures must identify the persons, or classes of persons, in the workforce who need access to protected health information to carry out their duties, the categories of protected health information to which access is needed, and any conditions under which they need the information to do their jobs.

but let's discuss protected health info. I think you are right. A phone n umber is not protected information. I can look you up in the phone book or on the internet and if yoru number is published then it's public.

I am looking and thinking more and more and this information (phone number isn't protected. So no violation there but I am sure he violated his companies policy on using information though but maybe not.

the above in bold is where I'm stumped. He used the health information after the call so I do believe he did violate this part of the act. He had her information to perform his duty but after the call, using that information for personal gain could be construed a violation according to the above paragraph in bold.

I will stick with my HIPAA source (lady) and use her definition and example.

Dwayne,

In the link Ruff provided you'll find this:

No. A phone number isn't listed as an example. But it would not be a far stretch to argue that a phone number could be used as identifiable information. And it isn't a matter of whether he transmitted her information to anyone. It's the responsibility of the facility or organization and its employees to protect the information. By taking this woman's phone number with the intention of asking her for a date it can reasonably be argued that her information was not protected. He had no business taking the info with him upon completion of the call.

Ruff's colleague has given her opinion. It'd be interesting if Ruff could convince her to join in the discussion so she could address some of these topics first hand.

Mike, I will ask her if she will enter the discussion. I'm not sure if she will or not but it cannot hurt to ask.

[DwayneEMTP]

I absolutely see where you guys are coming from, but I think that you're trying to put into the HIPAA act what you would like it to be, not what it is, which is a document protecting the use and transmission of medical/financial information amongst health care/billing facilities.

Also, it's very clear, though it's too late now for me to look it up again, (you guys are keeping me up way past my bedtime), that you don't violate HIPAA by giving information to a person that 1) owns it, in this case, the woman he asked out, or 2) has a right to it. See #1.

He had the right to collect it.

He didn't use that right to violate HIPAA, at least not in any way that's been shown. Even your HIPAA lady didn't, or at least I didn't see where, claim that he had done so.

And if he did call her, and talk about her vag reconstruction surgery, he would still not be violating HIPAA as it's her information to receive and his to gather as her "healthcare provider." (quotes, as his ability to qualify for such a title is certainly in question.)

I get the feeling that you guys feel that I'm arguing in this assholes defense, and I'm certainly not. I'm arguing for accuracy, and against the want of many to simply state 'HIPPA' because they don't know any better. We should all have at least some idea what the main laws that we operate under say...

In this case, the beginning, Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act is a pretty good initial clue...(Not sniping...trying to make the point in the most obvious way I know how.)

In this case if he called and said, "Holy shit, the new vag is rockin'! I could hardly get two fingers in there during my exam!!" No matter how disgusting we may find this, it's still not going to cause him to be guilty of violating a law that was not written to address this type of behavior.

So far the arguments seem to be along the lines of, "It's illegal to beat your dog." "Well, that should cover the slaughter of cows too. Cow slaughtering should be illegal as they are in the same spiritual vein." But no matter how badly we may want that to be true you will never be convicted for slaughtering your cow under the 'Don't Beat Your Dog Protection Act."

See?

Dwayne

[Just Plain Ruff]

Good argument Dwayne, I'll see if I can get her to be more focused as to whether he violated hipaa. Until then I'll give D-dog the score and say it wasnt' a hipaa violation because a phone number truly isn't protected information.

I will also give this scumbag the boot to the door for going against my services policy of not dating a patient and also contacting her using information that he would never have had in the first place had he not have transported her to the hospital.

I'll also let the hospital deal with him as they see fit as he did use their face sheet for not so personal gain since she told him it seems to get lost.

Maybe not a hipaa violation but surely a violation of the gentleman statutes.

[DFIB]

Maybe not a hipaa violation but surely a violation of the gentleman statutes.

Genltemen are hard to come by these days.

[hatelilpeepees]

I don't think it has to be transmitted info, my understanding is that if I tell the girls at the beauty shop that joe blow has HIV then I have violated it

Ruff how can your company enforce that policy? That is off the clock stuff

[Just Plain Ruff]

The use of patient information to get a date is part of the code of conduct that we have here. NOt specified but being that it borders on unprofessionalism and using patient data no matter how small for personal gain is frowned upon.

But I don't think we've had anyone fired for it though. It's a personel matter so I'm not privy to that info.

[DFIB]

The use of patient information to get a date is part of the code of conduct that we have here. NOt specified but being that it borders on unprofessionalism and using patient data no matter how small for personal gain is frowned upon.

But I don't think we've had anyone fired for it though. It's a personel matter so I'm not privy to that info.

Has your company ever had to defend that position in court? If so, how did things turn out?

[Just Plain Ruff]

Again, information I'm not privy to. I don't know of any lawsuit that addressed that issue. Not at my service at least. I'm sure that it's happened though.

I'm not saying that a company can fire someone for doing something on their off time but to use information that they got off the chart and use it to try to get a date, then that's just unprofessional and could be a fireable offense at some agency. I mean smoking bans have been enforced and people have been fired for smoking when it's against company policy off and on the clock so is this any different?

Now if you just used the patients name and looked her up in the phone book and made a call and asked her out then that's ok I guess but it still seems a little wrong to me.

If the patient made first contact then that's a totally different story.

[island emt]

I don't think it has to be transmitted info, my understanding is that if I tell the girls at the beauty shop that joe blow has HIV then I have violated it

Ruff how can your company enforce that policy? That is off the clock stuff

Too many people have minimal understanding of WHAT HIPAA really means.

It only affect's you if you are a billing service that uses various forms of electronic means to transmit Privileged Pt healthcare information. IE sending pt billing service your electronic run forms or transferring them to your central data processing office.

Privacy laws are a completely different thing.

If you have been talking about your Pt's at the beauty parlor then you are violating privacy laws, not HIPAA.

Page- Wolfburg has a great program on what HIPAA really means to prehospital providers Can't find the link right off the top of my head, but I'm sure a google will find it.

About the beauty parlor thing:

You might want to ask for a refund cause it ain't working !

[Richard B the EMT]

My phone number may be listed, but unless under court orders to do so, MY privacy is being violated if the agency releases it to anyone without my permission. I presume the same if someone copies the patient's phone number.