Free and Discounted Meals

[medicgirl05]

In response to mattmattmatt, our supervisor explained to us that if there is a wreck involving 2 employees from 2 different convenienve stores it could be argued that the employee who gave discounts got preferential treatment. Of course, we are a rural service with very limited resources.

[eb1040]

You're arguing it's illegal. What is the law that's being violated?

All states should have a set of regulations for Code of Ethics which is written into law to govern "gifts" given to public servants. This can include how charitable contributions are made to politicians and how a gift of value might be given to an employee. Some places might have a $50 per year limit and some may view all as a gift meant to bribe or influence the way a person performs their duty. You will hear alot about this during an election year and even some fire departments get a little cautious about what they are seen doing at political events where preferential treatment might be seen as a way to influence a compaign. A free cup of coffee at a restaurant that caters to firefighters and EMS but also has ties to a political figure can send the wrong message. That is just an example but sometimes in some communities, it can be a big deal. It is also surpising at how this can add up. At $2 per cup of coffee, an employee could easily accept 100 per year wihich is $200. Ten employees is $2000 and 100 employees is $20,000. Some could also figure this in for loss in the bottom line or loss in local taxes to be put back into the community which I"m sure a business professor could explain the circle of economics and its total effects no matter how innocent they seem.

Many companies such as hospitals or EMS agencies have incorporated corporate compliance acts for what happens within their own walls. This limits the freebies a vendor can give out to influence a purchase. It also restricts gifts made by patients to an individual.

There are exceptions to accepting discounts from a restaurant such as when it is written with permission from the place of busniness and the company that the discount is available to all employees of that company equally with proper ID. There may also be some type of agreement where the company compensates the restaurant for giving a discount to the employees so it is a provided benefit. Large companies such as FDs and hospitals may also use their size to get discounts from Verizon or Sprint but then it is seen as a benefit speciffically detailed in an employee package rather than a "gift".

An example of Code of Ethics by the IAFC:

http://www.iafc.org/...ItemNumber=3675

Fire and EMS leaders should also investigate if guidance and resources are available at the state level. Many states have instituted aggressive ethics laws for public officials and staffed enforcement branches to penalize offenders. In Oregon, for example, public officials (career and volunteer) are not allowed to accept a discount (e.g., at a grocery store, restaurant or golf course) of any kind unless it's available to the general public.

There are also ugly examples of those who take not getting a discount too far such as threating to not respond to an emergency. Whether they meant it or not these FFs were stupid enough to put it in writing.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/explore/harford/news/ph-ag-firefighter-complaint-0606-20120605-8,0,2843042.story

Edited October 8, 2012 by eb1040

[paramedicmike]

The poster in question stated it was illegal and then outlined a moral or ethical situation to support his argument. If the argument is legal then it's not unreasonable to argue from a legal standpoint.

If the argument does, then, become legal in nature it may be wise for people to read up on their own state legislation. Fortunately, the info has already been compiled into a convenient state by state table. Of course, the limitations apply if you're a governmental employee. Private employees may not be covered under the same legal guidelines. So it becomes a bit of a murky discussion to state, blatantly, that it's illegal to accept a discount from a local business without backing up the argument with legal precedent that would apply to all EMS providers both publicly and privately employed.

[eb1040]

The thing that could be argued is that many private ambulances are contracted by government entities to perform a service. When it comes to contract negotiations, anything that can be seen as influential could be hashed out in court costing millions to the companies and tax payers. Not a good way to make a positive impact for public support. AMR vs Paramedics Plus has become an example there and in one area their lawsuits over the contracts in a couple of cities have become known as the Great Ambulance War. The same also goes for the Private vs Public ambulance contracts which end up in court. Everything then becomes fair game. I think it is fair to say some EMTs and Paramedics may not actually know how the contracts are obtained or the details or how their actions are put under a microscope in some situations.

Edited October 8, 2012 by eb1040

[paramedicmike]

It still stands that even with contracts private ambulane employees are not public employes. The laws apply to public employees. While yes, the microscope can come out in contract disputes and private company policies may be an issue as far as employees go, they're still not public employees.

Now, it may be a contractual obligation, demanded by the municipality, that policies be enacted covering the receipt of gifts by the employees. That, then, becomes a contractual issue and is held to a different legal accountability process should a contract dispute emerge.

[LolaTiane]

lol absolutely nothing! We don't even get a discount in the hospital dining room and the service is OWNED by the hospital.

[eb1040]

It still stands that even with contracts private ambulane employees are not public employes. The laws apply to public employees. While yes, the microscope can come out in contract disputes and private company policies may be an issue as far as employees go, they're still not public employees.

Now, it may be a contractual obligation, demanded by the municipality, that policies be enacted covering the receipt of gifts by the employees. That, then, becomes a contractual issue and is held to a different legal accountability process should a contract dispute emerge.

There are other examples which have been used throughout the years. Often the restaurants might be owned at least in part by someone who is involved in politics. Certain corporations may be involved in politics and this is a great way to get a sutle political message in.

This is also like what has occured with hospitals which offered free meals or pizza parties to entice decisions to bring the right patients to them.

We could also go into some of the more recent headlines with Medicare fraud. Employees who knew they probably were apart of something wrong may have forgotten about it when given certain perks.

There are many fine lines to cross and some may not even realize they are because a sense of entitlement is bestowed upon them whilde someone else's motives is being exercised.

For whatever reason, if you are using your patch for personal gain while performing another job, it can be scene as a conflict of interest. There are reasons why tipping is not allow in certain places of business also. But, in the case of accepting a free lunch, you are singled out to receive a gift for a service you may not have done directly to that person but there may be an expectation of a future favor. By the opinions expressed here, this would be a very easy group to manipulate for gain from another by just bestowing a belief of entitlement and have enough excuses that it is all legal. Unions have used this for years. As the saying goes, no such thing as a free lunch.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Put yourself in the public's shoes.

Joe public sees the restaurant giving a free meal to an entire table of firefighters, the donut shop giving an entire dozen donuts to the cop, the quicky mart giving sodas and stuff to the ambulance crew.

Joe public doesn't care that the store owner is doing this as a thank you to the public safety person, joe public see's it as a freebie to a cop or a medic or a firefighter and most joe publics won't give it a second thought but if you have ever been a supervisor, I can tell you that there are weekly phonecalls that I got as well as the other sup's got that were from concerned Joe Publics that were complaining about just such a practice.

Just like they complain about our driving too fast, our sleeping in the ambulance, our taking too long to get to the scene and our taking too long to do our jobs.

You get enough of these concerned Joe Publics together and that becomes a huge problem as there is strength in numbers.

So be careful how you (some of you who feel entitled to the free lunch) treat the free lunch/soda's etc etc. People are watching you.

[mattmattmattmatt]

Most broadly, The Human Rights Act. That is the impression my classmates and I was under secondary to my professor's lecture. The arguement is that EMS and/or Firefighter's "could" be more likely to go to the place where they receive a discount or freebies before going to the place where they do not receive, such that two places catch on fire simultaneously. I'm not saying that they would or would not. In fact, i doubt it.....i'm providing insight from a lecture I had in college to this thread.

The Human Rights Act: ‘Your Right to Equality’, the whole Act itself is written to promote fairness and equal civil rights under the law. The Act as a whole prohibits discrimination on any grounds. Every human being has the benefit of the civil rights imposed by the Act and every human being can take action if any of their rights are breached.

Let me re-iterate that I do not personally have a "set opinion" on this subject matter. I enjoy getting the discounts from places that do offer them

[Arctickat]

The Act as a whole prohibits discrimination on any grounds.

Have you read this in the Act? I would be surprised if you had because the United States does not have a Human Rights Act. Human Rights in the United States are covered under several different federal and state laws, including the Constiitution and amendments, treaties, and other laws.

I haven't read all the laws, but the ones I have read are quite specific regarding discrimination. Race, Gender, Religion, Sexual Orientation, Disability, and so on...but I haven't read anywhere that discrimination includes chosen profession.