Is this considered backwards racism

[tniuqs]

Look how upset you are over a promotional/entrance exam that none of you were involved in, put yourself in a slave's shoes for a day(oh forgot, didnt have shoes).

Dear Crotch:

I did not read of any slaves denied access to the Daytona Police Dept, just those that scored too low to be considered as a possible candidate's, then whine about the atrocities of the distant past as an excuse, I did not hear of the "other ethnic groups" complaining ?

Do you think your accomplishing anything positive "for YOUR people" with your attitude or could your position perpetuate stereotypes of the poor downtrodden black man ?

Maybe listen to the words of MJ : Man in the Mirror.

Maybe time for YOU to make that change ?

edited to "center" the video for equality

Edited March 17, 2011 by tniuqs

[Lone Star]

A long held adage states that in order to figure out where you're going one must be aware of where they've been. This is true, so that the mistakes of the past won't be repeated in the future.

But it's also a double edge sword, with the back stroke being "As long as you hold onto the past with both hands, you cannot reach out to embrace the future".

Yes, we realize that there were slaves; we realize that there were atrocities perpetrated. Hanging onto the anger for 140+ years is counterproductive. I am in no way suggesting that what happened in that time frame in American history be forgotten, no more than I would suggest the Jewish people forget about what happened during the Third Reich.

The problem, as I see it; is that it’s only the black community in the United States that still expects the keys to the kingdom simply because of the color of their skin. No, Africans were NOT the only race/nationality to be mistreated throughout history, but their descendants are the only ones who will not stand on their own two feet and take charge of their own destiny!

Rather than complain how standardized testing is ‘culturally biased’, how about doing something about it (like every other successful non-white has done before you? Study your ass off like the rest of us, be proactive in your educational opportunities and actually make something of yourself rather than expect everything to be handed to you on a silver platter!

My Great Grandfather left Germany around the time that WWI broke out, came to America and became a naturalized citizen, joined the United States Army and was sent back to Germany. No, my people didn’t have slaves; because that era in time was long over by then.

After growing up poor, I decided that I was going to make something of myself. By doing so, I set myself up to be able to get through school without quitting, I stayed away from the gang mentality and dedicated myself to obtaining a ‘quality education’ in a predominantly black school, so don’t sit there on your self –righteous soapbox and tell me it cant be done! No; it wasn’t easy, but it WAS an attainable goal. I am the ONLY one who is responsible for my actions, and I will NOT use the past to justify a ‘free ride’ through life!

[crotchitymedic1986]

There is nothing like good old republican "pull yourself up by your bootstraps logic", the problem is the person has to have boots and straps. I assume all of you have taken a math class, and most of you took algebra, so lets see how you do with this question:

"the 3X + 1 problem".

Let f(x) be a function defined on the positive integers such that:

f(x) = x/2 if x is even

f(x) = (3*x+1)/2 if x is odd

Then the conjecture is: iterates of f(x) will eventually reach 1 for any

initial value of x.

The feeling you have right now, is the same feeling most minorities (excluding white women) feel when they take a promotional or entrance exam written by white people (usually university elitist). The mathmatician would marvel at how dumb you must be if you can not solve this problem immediately. I do conceed that not every black person's fate in life is due to an evil white person who held them back, if you will conceed that every member of his family from his grandparents back was held back by white people.

All you EMTs, go try to pass the National Registry Paramedic Exam without taking the Paramedic course, see how you do. You can not withhold education from a group of people for centuries and then expect them to excel on a test at the same level of people who have not had education withheld. I respect people who have an honest disagreement about affirmative action, all I ask is you tell me what system you would use to make sure the playing field is level ? I guarantee you that on every Fire Department's promotion exam that there is a question about friction loss, yet I have never seen a fireman calculate friction loss on a working fire scene, so why is the question there ? To purposefully create lower scores for those who are not good with math.

[HERBIE1]

Here's the fatal flaw in your logic. An entrance exam requires nothing more than the ability to read at a 6th grade level- the same level that newspapers are written at. It is simply general reading comprehension and the ability to follow directions-no prior knowledge of the fire service or fire ground tactics is required. Is that somehow unfair to minorities- or anyone who made it past the 6th grade or watched a couple years of Sesame Street? A promotional exam is generally no more than rote recall of department policies and procedures-all of which are available to anyone on the job. How is that in any way discriminatory or biased? At some point, excuses are like a'holes- everyone has one.

I do conceed that not every black person's fate in life is due to an evil white person who held them back, if you will conceed that every member of his family from his grandparents back was held back by white people.

I will concede no such thing. That is a huge generalization, so riddled with exceptions and inaccuracies that it's completely absurd,

All you EMTs, go try to pass the National Registry Paramedic Exam without taking the Paramedic course, see how you do. You can not withhold education from a group of people for centuries and then expect them to excel on a test at the same level of people who have not had education withheld.

Education been withheld? From whom? In the last 50 years, show me where ANYONE has been refused access to a basic public education. A couple centuries ago, except for the elite, most people were illiterate- black, white, Native, Asian- that was the norm . How far back should we go to keep the fires of victimization alive?

I respect people who have an honest disagreement about affirmative action, all I ask is you tell me what system you would use to make sure the playing field is level ?

By definition, the playing field will NEVER be level with things like affirmative action, set asides, race norming, banding, and quotas. You cannot keep making excuses for failure and expect anything to change. Any child in this country- even the illegals- has the opportunity to get an education. Some- of every ethnic group and race- have hardships to overcome to make that happen, and some do not. By the time a kid gets to high school, they need to make decisions- conscious or not. Those decisions will primarily be based on their upbringing and what they learned at home. Either they will engage in the learning process and eventually become productive members of society, or they will live on the periphery, outside of the law, or live off the tax payer's dime. Simple as that.

I guarantee you that on every Fire Department's promotion exam that there is a question about friction loss, yet I have never seen a fireman calculate friction loss on a working fire scene, so why is the question there ? To purposefully create lower scores for those who are not good with math.

Total BS.

So we should perpetuate that stereotype- little fire, little hose, big fire, big hose? Sorry, but you are dead wrong again. Does a firefighter need to completely understand these things to adequately do their job? No, but their officer, the chief, and the person supplying the water better have a firm grasp of it. Any engineer will tell you that depending on how many lines he is feeding, he needs to adjust his pump pressure. Add to that inline pumping, multiple sized lines and nozzles, the type of water pattern, as well as the various possible water supply options, and it's vital to understand the process. If an engineer is not doing his job properly, lots of people can die- firefighters and civilians alike. So by your logic, a paramedic should never need to know about things like a drug's side effects or it's mechanism of action. Just grab a blue box and a brown box for a cardiac arrest. Do you think a doctor recalls his knowledge of biochemistry class or recites the Krebs cycle every time he treats a patient? No, but his knowledge base and understanding of those things allows them make the right choices for treatment.

Why do you advocate the notion of dumbing down and lowering the bar? Who does that help?

Edited March 17, 2011 by HERBIE1

[tniuqs]

Quote:I respect people who have an honest disagreement about affirmative action, all I ask is you tell me what system you would use to make sure the playing field is level ?

Did they change the rule book for life ?

If that offer of 40 acres and a mule is still on the books well count me in too .. PLEASE.

Sorry to inform you and if you actually work on a gut wagon, YOU of ALL people should know these facts.

1- LIFE is not FAIR.

2- Pointing fingers and whining because of ancient history does not to work to advocate positive change. Its called the broken record philosophy, it will never make sweet music.

3- No matter how hard you beat a dead horse, it just ain't going to pull that wagon.

4- Yes Sir you fell off your soapbox and you broke your leg, the physics of this is that "gravity sucks". BTW I did not push you, nor did my father or my grandfather, but my white family must be accountable in some way.

4- All white non female, republican huh ? .... ah never mind, Herbie just posted and his thoughts, I echo his position.

I enjoyed the math question, here is the answer that I believe you seek as your algebra is directly proportionate to generating friction.

Quote from Albert Einstein:

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."

ps: apparently you do not own a mirror, so sad for you.

[Just Plain Ruff]

I do conceed that not every black person's fate in life is due to an evil white person who held them back, if you will conceed that every member of his family from his grandparents back was held back by white people.

All you EMTs, go try to pass the National Registry Paramedic Exam without taking the Paramedic course, see how you do. You can not withhold education from a group of people for centuries and then expect them to excel on a test at the same level of people who have not had education withheld. I respect people who have an honest disagreement about affirmative action, all I ask is you tell me what system you would use to make sure the playing field is level ? I guarantee you that on every Fire Department's promotion exam that there is a question about friction loss, yet I have never seen a fireman calculate friction loss on a working fire scene, so why is the question there ? To purposefully create lower scores for those who are not good with math.

Let me ask this, by crotchity's logic, are black people really that stupid that they need a test to be dumbed down to pass with a failing grade?

No-one has asked this question but really, are black people so Stupid because the white person kept them down.

I better go over to my neighbors house, He told me he grew up in the inner city chicago schools, with a graduation rate of little over 35% in his school. He graduated with a 3.75 gpa, went on to be a star kicker on his college football team, he graduated from college with a 3.9 gpa, he now is a top sales executive for a huge pharmaceutical company. Since all his distant relatives were held back by a white guy, then shouldn't I go over an tell him that our good friend Crotchity says that by all accounts he should be STUPID?

I'll bet that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson if they read what you are writing would be looking you up. You are the poster child for Sharpton and Jackson.

You are pretty literate on these forums yet by your own logic you shouldn't be!!! You should be failing everyone of your classes, you should have never gotten past the entrance exam for the fire department you work for.

So how the HELL did you do it Crotch? How did you actually pass that white man's test?

How did Barack Obama get where he is today? How did Clarence Thomas get to be a lawyer, the LSAT has math on it. He shouldn't have passed that test.

How did the black astronauts get to be astronauts? They did have to know math and science. They should not be where they are today.

Plus, wouldn't by dumbing down the test, decreasing the passing scores allow for more whites to pass the same said test? So the same number of whites are passing so how is dumbing down the test going to get more blacks into the fire academy or the police department?

[emtannie]

Unfortunately, we will never be able to convince Crotchity that his view is racist, uneducated and completely flawed, due to the following reasons:

1. Crotchity refuses to acknowledge that any other race or culture was harmed in slavery other than blacks

2. Crotchity fails to see that his stance is every bit as racist as that which he is attempting to argue; his belief that other races have every advantage while blacks do not is the core of this racism

3. Crotchity has made it very clear that he feels the current woes of the black population are not their own fault, but still uses slavery as an excuse for lack of achievement

4. Crotchity refuses to acknowledge that life is just not fair, and it is impossible to make it 100% fair for every individual

Based on these reasons, further discussion with Crotchity is not going to yield any new results. We can continue to provide historical evidence, current statistics, and personal experience to show the flaws his beliefs, but until he is willing to let go of the victim mentality, where he is letting emotion rule over fact, we cannot change him.

So, Crotchity, as you feel that white people are currently at fault for the woes of the black population, what is your solution? I don’t want to see “make the playing field fair.” I want to see specific ideas, specific plans, and concrete guidelines. I don’t want to see “it can’t be fair because we don’t have bootstraps.” From this point forward, what would you do? Don’t focus on the past – solve the problem that is right here, right now. I don’t want to hear that you can’t solve the problem because white people won’t let you – this is your chance to explain how you would improve the world.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Unfortunately, we will never be able to convince Crotchity that his view is racist, uneducated and completely flawed, due to the following reasons:

1. Crotchity refuses to acknowledge that any other race or culture was harmed in slavery other than blacks

2. Crotchity fails to see that his stance is every bit as racist as that which he is attempting to argue; his belief that other races have every advantage while blacks do not is the core of this racism

3. Crotchity has made it very clear that he feels the current woes of the black population are not their own fault, but still uses slavery as an excuse for lack of achievement

4. Crotchity refuses to acknowledge that life is just not fair, and it is impossible to make it 100% fair for every individual

Based on these reasons, further discussion with Crotchity is not going to yield any new results. We can continue to provide historical evidence, current statistics, and personal experience to show the flaws his beliefs, but until he is willing to let go of the victim mentality, where he is letting emotion rule over fact, we cannot change him.

So, Crotchity, as you feel that white people are currently at fault for the woes of the black population, what is your solution? I don’t want to see “make the playing field fair.” I want to see specific ideas, specific plans, and concrete guidelines. I don’t want to see “it can’t be fair because we don’t have bootstraps.” From this point forward, what would you do? Don’t focus on the past – solve the problem that is right here, right now. I don’t want to hear that you can’t solve the problem because white people won’t let you – this is your chance to explain how you would improve the world.

I'll bet crotchity won't touch that challenge with a 10 foot pole.

[HERBIE1]

I have no idea how old crochity is, or where he grew up. I do know one thing- he has learned how to play the victim card(at least in terms of his positions here) to the hilt. The "beauty" of being a victim is that you never have to take responsibility for your own actions or mistakes-it's ALWAYS someone else's fault. The downside is that you become defined by the past- which dooms you to remain beholden to some distant memory.

For decades now, people are STILL being treated unfairly here, only this time it is legally mandated to do so. We are paying for what someone did several centuries ago, and ironically, many of the people paying now come from similarly horrible backgrounds of oppression, violence, and yes, even slavery in their native countries. How is it fair that they should be held accountable for something they themselves- or their families- may have also gone through?

This is about vengeance. There is no end game here- it's a perpetual punishment for past misdeeds. How much is enough? What exactly will "level" the playing field? When will the slate be wiped clean?

[Just Plain Ruff]

It will neverbe wiped clean when we have people who will always be angry no matter what is done to make things better.

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