usalsfyre Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 For those of you who are saying no crime occurred, I'll bet the District Attorney in that particular jurisdiction would disagree with you if the kids were under the age of consent. Are they both charged with statutory rape? Neither one of them is technically able to give consent for sexual activity. Most DA's wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot pole. Not to mention in MY jurisdiction it's not a crime. I do remember a young man who was 18 who had sex with his 17 year old girlfriend. he was charged with statutory rape and spent several years of his life in prison. So yes it does matter. Different situation, as one party was an adult. That said, Texas has set up the age of consent so the sexual activity still wouldn't be a crime, between the ages of 17 and 20 it is allowable to have a 3 year or less age difference between the participants. Most often it seems like cases like you mentioned (one participant being 17 and the other 18, a VERY small age difference in the grander scheme) are used by DA's to make a statement on morality. Which brings up the question of the morality of ruining another person's life to make a statement/get reelected. I personally find this FAR, FAR more morally bankrupt and corrupt than sex between two people with a year of age difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Plain Ruff Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) Are they both charged with statutory rape? Neither one of them is technically able to give consent for sexual activity. Most DA's wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot pole. Not to mention in MY jurisdiction it's not a crime. Different situation, as one party was an adult. That said, Texas has set up the age of consent so the sexual activity still wouldn't be a crime, between the ages of 17 and 20 it is allowable to have a 3 year or less age difference between the participants. Most often it seems like cases like you mentioned (one participant being 17 and the other 18, a VERY small age difference in the grander scheme) are used by DA's to make a statement on morality. Which brings up the question of the morality of ruining another person's life to make a statement/get reelected. I personally find this FAR, FAR more morally bankrupt and corrupt than sex between two people with a year of age difference. I am in total agreement with you but I just put the DA comment out there because I'm sure that what this situation would be considered a crime by the DA in jurisdictions where the participants age was less than the age of consent in that jurisdiction. If I was charged with statutory rape each time I had sex in high school I'd still be doing some hard time (no pun intended). This is not about morality here, and yes both parties should be charged if one is. It's much easier to go after the guy in all of these situations because all the girl has to say is she said "no" and that's all the DA has to hear. I don't remember reading about a female being charged with statutory rape any time in the near past becuase it's just not "cool" or the "In thing" to charge a girl for rape. Remember, some mentalities still say that men cannot get raped by a girl. But back to the duty to report, we are required by law in MIssouri to report molestation and abuse to the State division of family services and if a girl(under 18) says she was sexually assaulted then the state of missouri considers that abuse and it's a reportable act. I do not know what the age of consent in missouri is, I think it's 14. Edited March 1, 2011 by Ruffems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneEMTP Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) For those of you who are saying no crime occurred, I'll bet the District Attorney in that particular jurisdiction would disagree with you if the kids were under the age of consent. I do remember a young man who was 18 who had sex with his 17 year old girlfriend. he was charged with statutory rape and spent several years of his life in prison. So yes it does matter. The post states specifically that they 'are the same age'. Who will the DA prosecute? If he goes, she goes too...so where is the crime? Dwayne Edit: Ooops, posting at the same time...disregard. Edited March 1, 2011 by DwayneEMTP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crotchitymedic1986 Posted March 2, 2011 Author Share Posted March 2, 2011 OK, you leave the cocaine on the table, the kids come home from school and something goes horribly wrong. You were the last public safety official in the home; no responsibility ? If it were a Meth Lab, would your answer be different ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usalsfyre Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 (edited) OK, you leave the cocaine on the table, the kids come home from school and something goes horribly wrong. You were the last public safety official in the home; no responsibility ? If it were a Meth Lab, would your answer be different ? So have him dump it down the toilet prior to transport. Still no reason to involve the police. It would be the same for any substance. Whether we're "public safety officials" or not is massively up for debate (although I get the feeling from your positions that's the direction you think EMS should go). A meth LAB is an entirely different ball of wax. First off the scene and the patient are very possibly contaminated (i.e. not "safe"). Then there's the fact that a lab represents a danger to a whole lot more people than just the patient. I'm not sure why your so interested in sicking the law on your patients. As noted however, in one situation laws may not have even been broken depending on jurisdiction, and your simply imposing your personal morals on others. In the other case your viewing the patient as a lawbreaker who needs to be in jail rather than a patient who needs treatment. Neither one has a place in modern healthcare, which EMS is a part of. If you want to put people in jail, I'm sure there's a PD near you hiring. If your simply playing devil's advocate I apologize... Edited March 2, 2011 by usalsfyre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paramedicmike Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 OK, you leave the cocaine on the table, the kids come home from school and something goes horribly wrong. You were the last public safety official in the home; no responsibility ? If it were a Meth Lab, would your answer be different ? Nope. EMS is not public safety. With regards to the meth lab, that's where my personal safety becomes an issue. You know, that whole scene safety bit. That would get a FD response. If the cops want to come play that's up to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promedEMT Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 2. Fairly sure also must report suspected drug use and drugs being found. I would def report it. What if the patient says "he took my drugs" and I didn't report there were any? I don't need that headache. Isnt that violation of patient confidentiality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uglyEMT Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 (edited) OK, you leave the cocaine on the table, the kids come home from school and something goes horribly wrong. You were the last public safety official in the home; no responsibility ? I have no way of knowing about kids, friends, family unless they are present. If I spot a family photo and ask about them while getting my "cocaine MI" packaged then hear they are on the way home I would possibly try and remove the substance down the toilet. But again scene safety comes into my mind and I am not going to touch an unknown substance and possibly contaminate myself or my partner. Don't forget cocaine and other powders can be absorbed through the skin, don't need that ball of wax. Real world example (it happened to myself so no HIPAA here). I worked for an airline at their international inbound terminal. We worked closely with CBP. One day as I was moving a bag from the cargo bin to the conveyor belt it broke open. I turned into the Pillsberry Doughboy. CBP called 911, I was rushed to a decon shower and yet the few minutes exposer until I was cleaned off had me spend the next several hours feeling "unstopable" in the local ED and a crap load of paperwork for the next several days. I have been in this situation many times in my area. Usually if PD wasn't contacted we leave it alone unless we feel their is imminant danger of a minor. No not "if" he/she comes home but is already home and this is the caregiver or parent we are treating. Thus it goes from a drug issue to a abuse issue and that we have to report. I would document what I found at the scene pertanant to my patient status and treatment and leave it at that. If it were a Meth Lab, would your answer be different ? Meth lab is a Hazmat Scene and I wouldn't be entering it until it was secured by Hazmat. Im talking glow worm suits and all. So in this case PD would definatly be notified as they would need to secure a perimiter for safety and possibly aid in evacuation of neighbors. FD would be on scene in case of explosion (hell I have heard some of those labs go up if a mouse farts) and also because they may be the Hazmat responders. As for the original scenario. What was the chief complaint that brought her to the nurse? If "something happened" as you say then we may be talking about abuse here. If we are talking plain remorse then I would let the nurse handle it and recomend to the girl AND the boy they need to speak with someone they trust about what they did and why they feel bad about it. I would only report if suspected rape or abuse occured. As you also stated being she is a nurse it is also his/her duty to report and hopefully before we arrive the PD is there. As far as telling the family directly, it is a slippery slope. On one hand you have HIPPA so by betraying confidentiality you are doing your patient harm but on the other hand you are dealing with a minor and parents should know. I would say that unless I am on the stand or being asked by a DA or detective I would just state bare minimum to the parents ie MY findings, not what was discussed or said or implied. Edited March 9, 2011 by UGLyEMT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Plain Ruff Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 The post states specifically that they 'are the same age'. Who will the DA prosecute? If he goes, she goes too...so where is the crime? Dwayne Edit: Ooops, posting at the same time...disregard. Dwayne, why shouldn't he prosecute both? They both had sex under the age of consent so in a black and white world couldn't they both be charged? I know they wouldn't. Never in a million years. On an offside, why is it that 99.9 percent of the time the male gets charged with rape or statutory rape even when the girl was the one who instigated the sexual relations? You don't hear on the news ever of this. but I do agree, there really isn't a crime here. I think I'd document it on my report and go with the flow. Now if the parents of either kid came back and raised a ruckus then there might be consequences of reporting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERDoc Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 (edited) There are a few states, though I am not sure which ones, that only define statutory rape as being committed by a man. As for the age of consent and both standing trial, if you are not old enough to consent to sexual intercourse, are you old enough to be held liable for having sex? I think this could be an interesting paradox. Edited March 9, 2011 by ERDoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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