True artificial barriers in Labour Mobility Canada, the WCB in B.C. or the OFA level 3

[tniuqs]

with (hundreds of) years experience.

Ahem OUCH ... thats just hurtful and mean ! I guess the truth is supposed to hurt ?

Kiwimedic:

Turnip that list didn't include sedated; tsk, tsk, tsk

No more propofol fer you ! Bhwaaa Haaa Ha.

Hells Bells:

Perhaps this topic should be brought up at the next AGM?

Hey there is an idea ....

KosherMedic:

Those were the BEST 76 hours of my life...

Right then .... step away from the kosher Rhum !

ukcanuk:

I personally can't see how anyone could say that this is a barrier to the free movement of labor

Freakin unreal is what it is!!!!!!!!

OFA is not under the EMALB and so is not mandated by AIT as far as I can tell. Two separate entities who do not talk to each other as I can't get an answer out of either as to what a PCP/ACP needs to do to be "allowed" to work for industry.

Correction mate ... AIT is all encompassing and especially in regards to industry, heck maybe I can get my money back if I ask Gordo politely .... yea think ?

On the other Hand it is mandatory for employment so hello Revinue Canada is this a recoverable employment expense ?

ps As stated in a prior thread a letter IS under construction.

aussiephil:

You want some cheese with that whine turnip???????

No mate: I lue of Wine or Beer, I will be scanning the EBM research of OfA level 3 syllabus, then sending it to you via Wambat express delivery for your personal historical library !

This proves the point their is always one smart ass OZ in the crowd.

Members who have posted negative items regarding ACP on public websites have received letters of caution to not voice their opinons publicly. This leaves the ACP membership in a situation where they can put up and shut up, revolt, or put pressure on political interest groups to make changes. The last two options take an incredible amount of planning and energy, and need the backing of a large number of members, or the members who spearhead those actions will die on that career hill by themselves.

Disagree:

Your underestimating a few things i.e. The Labour movement in AB and a possible launching of a career based on a value called integrity.

Agreed:

A letter(s) reprimand or caution ? This is a lesson in absolute true futility by ACoP and some have used this as a private joke in fact therefore a rational person hence is forced to ask themselves if the social networking, Twitter, Facebook, Professional websites, (open to the public) then multiple the list servers, union websites (i.e. private) and with far more than just ONE renegade / member voicing opposition or posing challenging questions ?

Should the college receive a "F" for FAIL in transparency, has it been responsible to the will of the membership ? Well does one need to ask my opinion ? Nope ... absolutly this is the proof positive of a big phat failing grade, and besides being childish what the hell happened to open honest debate ... Oh thats right Pierre moved to Ottawa !

Excerpt From the public Website of ACoP:

Responsibilities of the Ethical Practitioner to the Paramedic Profession

Ensuring that one's conduct reflects positively on the integrity of the profession.

Values

Just who is the true judge of the positively, in the long run or integrity of the future of MY profession ? Is an EMR or EMT in the position (and no offence intended)I seldom have observed these level's never been charged with the responsibility for an individuals life with very invasive procedures and typically restricted to an MD, as in commiting an individual to a Ventilator, RSI, Narcotic administration, antiarrhythmia medication, Electrical cardioversion or sticking a needle in a chest to decompress a Pneumo ... SO PLEASE lets put things into TRUE perspective for a rational a thought process, how can these subordinate levels of education really understand and without ever being in these situation(s) ?

WTF is dustdevil, Ventmedic, Bledsoe, Ridrider 911 and K. Westley when I need truly them, damn you guys !

Is this NOT a fair question? IMHO it is time that an experianced REMT-P took over the reins of power as the President of ACoP ?

Further a "Paramedic" as presently defined by the College but uses the handle "College of Paramedics" the terms of reference and title protection are quite clear as to whom can use the present title "Paramedic" therfore just how can an present EMR President be charged with understanding the intricacy in scope of practice alone, then be in a position to affect the future of Paramedicine ? This is simply bamboozling to myself and I am NOT alone on this concept a number of MEMs have approached myself in this query.

On to Code of Ethics ... how can one be accommodating without the background of the ACP like really, is it not realistic to pose this question ?

While maintaining and enforcing a Code of Ethics, the College leaders and staff commit to upholding the following values:

Professionalism

Excellence

Leadership

Integrity

Accountability

Lets evaluate a few things here, for debate purposes only.

Accountability to whom ? To the Profession or to the College ?

Integrity to the Profession or once again to the College ?

Perhaps the duality of the ethical dilemma in of itself and more food for debate.

The Alberta College of Paramedics is a self-governing body designated under the Health Disciplines Act

.

Ah here we go again A SELF Governing Body ? A most interesting point really, this divestiture from PAC this has caused a tremendous amount of controversy, nuff said at this juncture.

The thing is:

People do not like change but in fact change is inevitable the attempts of ACoP to "mum the misinformed masses" will eventually lead to very serious revolt or perhaps even more lawsuits, does it matter if one wins one battle or the war ? When someone is pushed or employment in a carreer is threatened and without serious justification, well just saying the gloves could come off and funded by the most unlikely of sources .... just saying. (in fact that IS a Caution) More of these foolish lawsuits could be launched and the undoing of the very persons that attempt these knee jerk technique of political bullying. The idea of controlling opinion's in social media and networking is simply laughable, foolish, and a serious waste of time and effort.

With a change in the government minions or an informed and viable opposition (and this could be on the horizon very, very soon) Well things could change there is always checks and balances both legal and political for those that attempt to use this technique commonly referred to as "bullying". If any middle manager is not cognitive that they are subject to political changing whims then they too could be using the "employment" adds themselves.

In fact we have witnessed this in the history of ACoP with a somewhat quiet departure of one past Registrar and a Manager too. I often wonder just what happened, don't you ? There are no secret's in politics, someone always spills their guts (i.e. oops whistle blower is more politically correct isn't it ?)My bad ?

FYI:

ByLaw: 4.2.3 The CEO/Registrar Performance Review and Enhancement Committee is established as a Standing Committee in accordance with its Terms of Reference, as approved by Council.

Sorry a bit off topic, but just when is the next Performance Review Scheduled or is this sanctioned "in camera" My God I should have had a lawyer read the new Bylaws before endorsing them myself ... sheesh, I am sorry now.

Cheers and just saying but any and all Bylaws can be changed with a motion and a vote ... as this is called DEMOCRACY.

Edited May 1, 2010 by tniuqs

[northernmedic]

How come you couldn't just take the Paramedics in Industry one day bridging course? That's what everyone here takes to get signed off by the WCB for industrial work. I've never heard of people having to take the entire course.

[Kiwiology]

No more propofol fer you ! Bhwaaa Haaa Ha.

Aw poo .... and I liked propofol so much but does this mean I get ketamine instead, that should be interesting, the hallucinations should provide some neat entertainment

[tniuqs]

How come you couldn't just take the Paramedics in Industry one day bridging course? That's what everyone here takes to get signed off by the WCB for industrial work. I've never heard of people having to take the entire course.

Yes good point, there IS a "bridging course" LOL to deal with the intricacy's of WCB reporting for First Aid as if no full fledged registered ACP could figure this out, what is really required is a 4 page "information package on the differences of AB vs BC and a 10 question jurisprudence is all that is needed ... heck the BC ALS jurisprudence (on line) is 25 questions ... see where I am going with this ?

I wish I could attach the WCB First Aid report form ... NO area for Blood Pressure (this is not taught in the OFA level 3) No area for Pulse Oximetry and the little stick man to circle the "area" are injured ... bhwaa haa ha, I write a book on every clinic encounter and the "company or WCB has to supeona to get the real MEDICAL evaluation.

So the Rationale: ???

One must travel $$$ to BC to locate a "qualified" bridging Instructor ... ca ching $$$$, lost wages, accommodations, fuel, food then the cost of the Bridging Course, like to the tune of $1300.00 OMG for a bloody first aid couse that has not changed since 1979 ... besides I still have my "ticket" from those days of yor ....

Even with the "bridging program" one must do the "take home" educational information er homework to suck out all the Evidence Based Medical Practice. The First Aid Education of OFA 3 is frankly a joke and perpetuates many last aid myths.

That Trendelenburg position actually works.

That CATS should only be applied as a "last resort" despite EBM (You know like the trauma treatment(s) recommendations from War Zones like Iraq or Afghanistan, argh when will we be progressive in Emergency Medicine)

That application of a cold pack to a femur fracture is a recommended thing to do? no mention of DVT in the program.

That Traction Splinting is not discussed)

That Velcro Straps and wooden spine boards should be used in spinal, not to forget that > than 20 minutes from a Hospital a Helo is supposed to be called at night in a blizzard ?

AND I guess no one tried to put a Stokes litter in an A Star or 206 or 407 lately, WTF they don't FIT!

Then velcro (porous and impossible to clean strap's, although the Infectious Disease Control methods disagrees with velcro, and then then additional padding is needed so that abrasions with not result. WTF ?

Then my most favorite O2 delivery and the exam question :

What is the preferred method of 02 delivery ??? Answer: NRM yet in BCAS ALS protocols it is keep SpO2 > 95 ... give me strength as most OFA 3 can't figure out a D tank @ 15 lpm flow and how long it will last ... maybe I was sleeping during that "video" ... ps I may have a little knowledge about Oxygen Delivery .... sheesh.

Further: Then the hugely changing demographic of illness verses injury i.e. the pushing 60 workforce, the chain smokers, sedentary equipment operators, then the super duper high cholesterol diet of fried this and deep fried that " I could go on and on but this ends my rant fer today, back to looking for expired propofol for kiwi !

cheers

[ukcanuck]

Been chatting with WCB just recently about the paramedic in industry course and it appears that an ACP does not have to do the course but only if they are operating as an ACP and NOT the designated first aider???????????????

So if an ACP is to be the "first aider" as well they have to do the course which is known to be of a lower level and lower treatment/care levels. That is excellent in my book <sarcasm> I'm off to the NWT for the summer season!

Talking about barriers to Labour Mobility in Canada there are several even once you get your prov lic.

Services that will not offer you an interview as you don't have that provinces drivers licence but you can't get one without moving there and you don't want to move there without said job??

Services that want you to be base hospital certified but you can only get BH certified if you work for a service that the BH covers.

Provincially mandatory training for equivalency candidates before you can get hired.$$$$$

Small day long courses for differing topics that become requirements for employment/interview but they are only available in that area so you have to fork out cash to go do it.$$$$$$$ and they are not required by other services in that area or province.

Differing requirements for pre interview medical/physical testing and even then the certificates are only good for a few months at best so you end up having to go back again and again forking out more cash even before you have an interview let alone a job.

Ridiculously short time frames from advert to interview to selection to start date.

Multiple and separated dates for the different elements to the selection procedure.

I don't mind doing all of that but I don't think it right to make prospective candidates to do it all even before an interview. I'll jump through whatever hoops an employer wants after they have at least offered me an interview.

I don't mind that the local applicant will have it easier hell he's the local it is always going to be easier for them but how about at least giving some of us that are a little further away a bit of a chance?

The only area that I can see is anywhere close to mobile is industry. The courses I have taken are nationally recognised and apart from working as a "designated first aider" in BC I can apply for registration in a province then start working in industry.

Just my take on it

[tniuqs]

<snip>

Just my take on it

So uk .. are you saying that the barriers are primarily "financial" in nature for inter provincial reciprocity for ACPs let alone International ?

And on an Industrial site in BC you need a OFA 3 to hand over care .... it just doesn't get much dumber than that ... maybe have an janitor in ER to legally hand over care to the ER MD now ?

That said:

Why not apply to the B. Institute in Edmonton they have a 700 thousand $ grant (and well before) the College received Federal Funding for foreign medical credentialing / recognition .... quite interesting timing ... like really

As an Foreign trained Medical Professional,then receive immigration funding and ESL education as for free ? Opp's forgot YOU did that all on your own coin, ? too bad you dont get the works paid for on my tax dollar and decrease my opportunities of employment ... but oh silly me I guess I forgot that your "mostly" fluent in English, (bloody Poms ) a nice idea in theory .... I guess.

Heres a real kicker we have very few positions for ACP in AB presently with all the restructuring, transition and quiet cut backs. Yet a very realistic, tangible and clearly identifiable need for Rural MDS / GP or Family Medicine Men / Women ... go figure eh ?

I just do not understand THIS huge waste of Federal Tax money either (then throw the other 1.2 million in the mix to accomplish something that boils down to something that is clearly already been accomplished)

This is entirely wrong focus in health care, overall the filling of vacancies that are not simply not there <insert picture of my very befuddled face > as I peer into the crystal ball of government health care planning.

cheers and please accept my apology on behalf of 3 of the most poorly managed entities in Kanukistan ... Alberta Health Care, BC Health Care and our notorious Feds ... that for some reason just do not have each others cell phone numbers

Edited May 15, 2010 by tniuqs

[ukcanuck]

Barriers are both practical and financial as some people just don't have the time to keep up all the little tickets that you have to travel for to have a shot at a job for some services. You almost have to give up your job and move on spec to where you want to be then hope that a spot comes up before you go broke/crazy. That doesn't even start to touch on what you have to do to come over as a international paramedic. A friend of mine has just got his AB registration and one of the courses he had to do was a CPR C ticket dispite being ALS provider and able to prove a UK CPR ticket???? He has jumped the hoops cause he, like me, thinks in the long run it will be worth it.

I didn't even think about trying to get my credentials done via the B. institute....... kinda figured that having UK tickets I wouldn't get past the front door. I love the fact that the government is training and assisting people to get qualifications for a job that currently has very little job opportunity..... that is so govt like

As for spots in AB for ACPs, every service I have talked to says that they need or will need ACPs esp with experience. Active recruiting is another matter with the odd one popping up here and there and then it has some small course as a requirement for selection that most people from outside the prov will not have. Mobility between provinces FAIL

We currently have an illusion of mobility between provinces. You can get the registration but getting the job is another matter. Services set different requirements for selection/interview/employment that make it difficult for applicants to attain and maintain for possible vacancies.

But as you say, taking foreign trained doc make them ACPs to fill spots that aren't there when there are doc spots to be filled????? makes sense to me?????? Or are they planning to use them as advanced paramedics kinda like an Emergency Care Practitioner role in the rural communities and they don't have to pay them as docs cause they aren't?????? Nah thats takes planning and forethought...........

Apology accepted gratefully and I will keep on slugging away at the pitches and one of them will be a home run - I hope

Be safe with that OFA first aid kit - its dangerous you know

[rock_shoes]

Yes good point, there IS a "bridging course" LOL to deal with the intricacy's of WCB reporting for First Aid as if no full fledged registered ACP could figure this out, what is really required is a 4 page "information package on the differences of AB vs BC and a 10 question jurisprudence is all that is needed ... heck the BC ALS jurisprudence (on line) is 25 questions ... see where I am going with this ?

The lack of qualified instructors for said “Paramedic in Industry” bridging course is due to its very recent emergence. The PII course only came into existence early this year. Prior to the start of this year the only option, other than completing the entire 76 hours from evidence based hell, was to spend 8 hours at the Justice Institute doing their OFA 3 bridge course for licensed PCPs and ACPs (evidence based purgatory). I did the 8 hour bridge course myself because I’m not the masochist you are Squint. Did you wake up one day and decide you hate yourself? One 8 hour day from hell was enough for me. I don’t know how you did it.

I wish I could attach the WCB First Aid report form ... NO area for Blood Pressure (this is not taught in the OFA level 3) No area for Pulse Oximetry and the little stick man to circle the "area" are injured ... bhwaa haa ha, I write a book on every clinic encounter and the "company or WCB has to supeona to get the real MEDICAL evaluation.

Found them for you Squint. Ah precious moments in history eh!

BC OFA 3 Patient Care Record

PCR

BC OFA 3 First Aid Record

Record

$1300.00 OMG for a bloody first aid couse that has not changed since 1979 ... besides I still have my "ticket" from those days of yor ....

Cutting edge stuff in 1960!

That CATS should only be applied as a "last resort" despite EBM (You know like the trauma treatment(s) recommendations from War Zones like Iraq or Afghanistan, argh when will we be progressive in Emergency Medicine)

This one in particular pisses me off. Sound evidence based tourniquet application is critical for those of us working in remote/austere environments. It’s not like we have access to an unlimited supply of O negative for these patients and making pink cool-aid isn’t exactly effective.

That Traction Splinting is not discussed)

Didn’t they teach you how to make that slick little triangular ankle thingy and pull on the patient’s leg? Bwaaa. Your such a masochist.

I guess no one tried to put a Stokes litter in an A Star or 206 or 407 lately, WTF they don't FIT!

They don’t? On a more positive sidetrack we finally have a dedicated CCT unit based in Kamloops with a stocked 212 and ground unit at their disposal at all times. I almost cried Squint. It has a full size cot with proper antlers, room to work, and room for all of the necessary equipment. We’ve done a few auto-launches with the 212 on the Coq already and it has provided a tremendous improvement in upper level care availability for the region. For anyone looking to do flight based scene responses and critical care inter-facility type work it’s the post we all dream about. Four eleven hour dayshifts on, four days off with as much or as little overtime as you want (for the most part). I’ll forward you the posting next time it comes up.

Then my most favorite O2 delivery and the exam question :

What is the preferred method of 02 delivery ??? Answer: NRM yet in BCAS ALS protocols it is keep SpO2 > 95 ... give me strength as most OFA 3 can't figure out a D tank @ 15 lpm flow and how long it will last ... maybe I was sleeping during that "video" ... ps I may have a little knowledge about Oxygen Delivery .... sheesh.

This is actually the procedure for all BCAS providers (excluding the “driver only” volunteer types of course). The target range for COPD patients used is a 92-95% SpO2 reading. Because none of our monitors sense CO levels, any patient with suspected CO poisoning receives a 15 lpm flow via NRB. Focus on a patient’s clinical presentation over the SpO2 reading is highly stressed.

I'll admit I don't remember the tank constant for a D cylinder off hand myself. I do however know where to find it and how to calculate cylinder flow duration using it (Tank Constant multiplied by the current tank pressure minus the desired resudual pressure divided by the flow rate (Flow duration = Tc * ((Tp - Tpr) / (Fr) ) ). It just so happens a D cylinder at 2200 PSI flowing at 15 lpm (leaving 200 PSI of residual pressure) will last 21 minutes 20 seconds .

Further: Then the hugely changing demographic of illness verses injury i.e. the pushing 60 workforce, the chain smokers, sedentary equipment operators, then the super duper high cholesterol diet of fried this and deep fried that " I could go on and on but this ends my rant fer today, back to looking for expired propofol for kiwi !

cheers

You mean do something insane like consider the patient population being served? Who borrowed you some of BC’s finest?

A bit of an aside, but I managed to secure freedom from the provincial masters for the last 8 days of the month (the price being my freedom for the entire 3 weeks preceding but C'est la vie). This ACoP AGM should be extremely entertaining.

Rock_shoes

edit:just fixed the links.

Edited May 16, 2010 by rock_shoes

[tniuqs]

Subject: FW: Fw: Important Petition ...

Petition ...

As a rule, I don't pass along these "add your name" lists that appear in emails. BUT this one is important. It has been circulating for months and has been sent to over 3 million Albertans.

To show your support for Ed Stelmach please go to the end of the list and add your name.

1. Mrs Stelmach

2.